Untapped Lands

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Artisan
I've recently made a contact across the mists.

Production is a little bit cheaper there and (after calculating shipping costs) should still undercut our current market.

If you have any scrolls/potions/alchemy/blacksmithing requests, I believe I can get them to you faster and slightly below the current cost of 2.5x*

Next shipment needs to be declared within the next 48 hours or it will be delayed.

Inquire within for more details



*All prices subject to market fluctuations
 
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Here's a question, are you trying to get people to want to kill you?
 
If someone would kill the source of reasonably priced goods to keep their monopolies, we have a much larger issue than my own mortality.

Besides that, killing me wouldn't change much of anything. I'm just the mouthpiece.

I'm not too worried.
 
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The difficulty is that, say we do go through you and begin buying these purportedly lower priced items from other lands:

You undercut the local artisans. If they become too undercut, they will cease production as it is no longer in their benefit to create items when they would make more money adventuring or through some other trade. At that point, you become the sole trader and provider of goods.

What happens when you suddenly vanish? What happens when your mind gets taken over by our enemies? What happens when we just need a specific good and you have no stock of it?

I am not in favor of monopolies. Personally, I will continue purchasing my own stock from my local friends and businesses and I urge others to do the same.

In service,
Lord Terren of Knight's Ferry
 
Currently, most artisans locally double batch.

This means they average 1.2x == ((1+2).8)/2 production (assuming they're not wasting 20% of every batch on botched creations) and they sell at 2.5x

A 130% profit.

If we could supply enough goods so that nobody was hastily eating resources on a second batch, average costs would be .8x and sales ~2.45. This means profits would increase to 165%

Using my methods, all our artisans earn more gold per product, all our countrymen have more of what they need, and all our enemies have less unprepared people to prey on.

As per usual, trade makes us all stronger.

For what it's worth, I'm delivering these at cost. Mist merchandise is risky business, and I need to hire protection.
 
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Very altruistic, except, while you are correct that they earn more gold per product, they also manufacture less product to sell. They would have to raise their prices in order to result with the same amount of profit in the end that they create from double batching.

Everyone is free, in trade, to make their own choices- the prices you offer are lower.

I'm not sure whose countrymen you are referring to with "our," but regardless if you are looking to assist my countrymen of Maelstrom's larger general population, we receive the majority of our supplies as donations from other lands through various contracts. Very little of it is exchanged for coin. If you have a donation you would like to make, to help all our countrymen, please register it at the Clerk's office and thank you for your support.

In service,
Lord Terren of Knight's Ferry
 
Dang, you ****s. No wonder that ****hole known as the maelstrom is in such bad shape. Your trade practices are downright horrendous.

How about instead of jumping to telling whoever this merchant is to **** off immediately, you hear him out.

Maybe the people of the maelstrom, do you guys call it anything other than "that crazy big storm"? Maybe those people would prefer to not rely on charity.

Trade is important to a healthy economy, a healthy economy is important to a healthy society, and you know, you should be trying to help that land instead of using it to line your pockets with its relics and treasures.

I'm not saying that your intentions are impure, but that you should really consider the ramifications of your protectionist gut reactions.

- Chuck Cookieson of Xiaohai

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Desky,

My skeptical friends are better versed in such matters than I am, and I tend to defer to their judgement on such things. However, I believe it is always better to know more than less, and so I am still interested in learning about your perspective on such things and the proposals that stem from it. I'm afraid that neither maths nor economics are my strong suit, but if you are willing to teach still, I am eager to learn.

My apologies for not seeking you out for a lesson at last gather. Death has a way of throwing off one's schedule, it seems.

Best,
Clerk Pluvianella Charbonneau
 
Unlike many other areas, it seems to me that the Malestrom is more of a war zone than most other places I have been. I do not see anyone planning on setting up a home there, raising children and crops and making a living there. The reason that most artisans perform two batches is not to make more money - in fact such productions by default cost more to make which means fewer profits - but to support the troops in this time of war. If I was to be stuck on paying for the items I create with the money I make on other avenues of income, I would be restricted to making less than half of what I'm capable of making due to the cost of resources. The reason I charge what I do is so that I can keep a steady supply up heading towards the people in need of it.

If cost is holding people back from being able to get a healing potion or a protective scroll, ask the people who make them if you could simply have one. When out in the field, I'm passing out my product onto people bleeding out or overcome by the madness of the Malestrom without ever going back to them to have them pay for the use. They protect me with their greater fighting prowess, I protect them with my ability to create the items they need to continue to fight. As I've noted earlier, someone had absconded with almost all of my wares. I am hoping that they find their way into the hands of those fighting, and I don't see how they won't.

The other question I have for those who are looking to keep things on the cheap, possibly cutting off the flow of coin to local artisans and thereby putting a decrease in the items possible to produce or raising local prices so that the can continue to produce all their items - what are you saving the money for? To buy a plot of land within the Malestrom? What do you plan on buying within the Malestrom to help with the cause? And then, more importantly, who do you plan on buying such items from? I am currently part of an expedition to go and, with some unique skills of my own, hopefully find some items to help with the war. Do you know what my compensation is for hiking around, lending my expertise and putting myself, one without combat abilities, into jeopardy? Two silver. Money I need to purchase food for the trip. I'm not saying everything should be done altruistically, just be mindful that there are things known as unintended consequences that go far beyond many people's view of saving 5 copper on a healing draft; and it usually winds up costing a great more than 5 copper to fix it.

I have no issue with people setting their own prices, looking for better deals and so on. But do remember one thing, the items that are manufactured by those in the camps, in the Malestrom, have a much better chance of being available for disbursement and use. As you've stated, both in the caveat that 'all prices are subject to market fluctuation' and the need to hire protection all shows that such pricing is not guaranteed to remain at the level and that there is no guarantee to their arrival. But I say if the deal is good for you, give it a shot and see what happens. As for myself, I put forth selling and/or simply using my items for free upon the guardians of the Malestrom. Before I closed up my bar to prepare for my expedition, I checked how much money I had left over after making items for the cause and using/selling them as I could. I sold a total of 77 drinks at a silver a piece. Including my tips as well as the income from other side craftsmen work, I had one gold and 8 silver above what I started with. Some may see it as bad business but I see it as defending the realm. Checking my records, it was due to the fact that 90% of my wares went to the defense of Malestrom free of charge. Imagine how much less would have been out there if I hadn't received that extra 5 gold from selling my drinks.

But I ramble on. As one who doesn't adventure in the normal sense, I tend to be a bit verbose in my discussions. I apologize and need to get ready anyways for my trip.

In Service,
Kon
 
Why are so many jumping to the conclusion that importing goods will kill off the local cottage industry? Is it a threat by local artisans and craftsfolk?

Could it not simply be the case that there is a surplus of wealth that could be converted to more goods to conduct your war with... a storm? Anyways I would put cold hard coin on there being a need for more supplies, and an excess of means to pay for it without negatively effecting the local artisans.

- Chuck Cookieson of Xiaohai

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
It should be noted that I assume Merchant Desky's deal applies to Maelstrom, Enerret, and any other lands he travels to- he is not a native of Maelstrom.

As far as purchasing goes, others may make their own choices as always, and may purchase from whoever they want. From a purely economic standpoint with the goal being self interest as a purchaser in the moment of sale, Merchant Desky is offering lower prices, and he is correct that in double batching a certain amount of raw material- and therefore economic efficiency- is lost.

Despite that however, I personally will continue to frequent our local producers.

I cannot speak to the situation in Enerret, only Maelstrom, and to turn things back to the positive I would like to add to Kon's offer- if you need basic supplies like potions, scrolls, or other items but don't have the coin to purchase them please, let people know. Talk to me, talk to the local producers, speak to Desky since he claims altruistic purpose. There are scrolls, potions, alchemy, and other items that are around. Others in our community are putting together 'loaner' magical weaponry. Nobody has to go without.

Kon, I apologize for not formally making your acquaintance this past gather, I hope we may remedy that soon enough.

In service,
Lord Terren of Knight's Ferry
 
Why is it we cannot support both? This deal does seem to be limited in time, is it not?
 
if you are willing to teach still, I am eager to learn.

My apologies for not seeking you out for a lesson at last gather. Death has a way of throwing off one's schedule, it seems.

I'll put together some core concepts and send you a rough overview. I'd rather not derail this rich discussion with the pedantic disagreements over semantics which usually follow math.

What do you plan on buying within the Malestrom to help with the cause?

One of the largest issues of the malestorm (aside from constant imminent death) is the lack of planning ahead. The entire collection is so used to hanging on by their fingertips that they can't use their hands to build.

Can you imagine what strength you could wield with a few hundred hired hands? 500 archers firing 50000 arrows. So many problems could be solved before they became such.

Money is power, money is potential. You can not afford to waste it, even for altruism.

If we can free up capitol from surviving the day to day dangers, perhaps we can move merchandise to the malestorm from someplace more manageable.

Why is it we cannot support both? This deal does seem to be limited in time, is it not?

The shipment is actually fully accounted for at this time.

We'll see how much of the goods make it to us before I start talking about future experiments.

To everybody worried about the malestorm: I haven't forgotten you. In spite of my many years trading, I'm new to mist shipments, and I need a trial run before I carry cargo to someplace like that.

To everybody arguing that wealth and profit will dry up if we trade with the outside world: Consider attending one of my lectures.
 
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What happens when we just need a specific good and you have no stock of it?

Lord Terren, I can tell you what will happen. You'll inevitably return to the local crafters, who have been starved of resources, and so, when you ask of them to make or purchase your items, they will quote you a price triple or more the cost of the most basic materials.

And you will pay it. Or not get what you need.

Double batching is for hobbyists.

~Viv
 
Desky,

I understand your wishes to contribute your economic knowledge to our community, but I also see that you are rather new to our lands - be they the Maelstrom, Enneret, or other. I would recommend you give yourself a bit more time in our midst to better understand the nuances of our trade and valuation system before you attempt to convey plans or ideas to fix a system that you see as broken.

While I have no issues purchasing goods to from the best bid, if they are truly as low valued as you say, what is to stop someone like me from buying ALL of the goods and reselling them at a profit in our land? As Lord Terran has stated, what happens when those goods are suddenly not available due to them being needed in other lands, or your supplier not coming through? At that point we would not have produced enough of our own goods and would end up being in more need because we had grown reliant, or worse as Viv has pointed out, we would have merchants selling at 3x the cost they do in order to turn a profit from losses over previous gathers.

Our economy is more fluid and complex than you are giving it credit for. The cost of goods and distribution of wealth is not a small issue, nor is it a behemoth causing the downfall of our society. Needs are generally immediate for smaller goods such as those produced by alchemists, blacksmiths and potion makers - with the real earnings coming from large item sales such as catalysts, formal scrolls, or magical items.

I do not know a single adventurer that has made fortunes on their merchant skills alone. It is a combination of those skills with adventuring, smart purchases and resells, as well as a bit of luck that has made fortunes.

I am not sure what you wish to achieve, but your approach to fixing things is becoming a bit - antagonistic. I would tread more carefully were I you until you have a better understanding of how things function.
 
what is to stop someone like me from buying ALL of the goods and reselling them at a profit in our land?

Isn't that how markets work? Show me that entrepreneurial spirit!

I do not know a single adventurer that has made fortunes on their merchant skills alone.

A blind guess, but between our inflexible prices and our l̶o̶o̶t̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ "donation" based economy, I would suspect that most of the local merchants haven't gotten a fair chance to flex their economic expertise.
 
You see Desky- those two remarks are part of the nuances of our system. If I were to buy out your goods and resell them for a profit, there would be no change in the economic status of our lands other than one individual growing more wealthy. As others learned of my technique they would find my source and attempt to outbid me thus raising costs, lowering profits, and creating an artificial inflation.

As for our "donation" based economy - this will never change. This is a factor in understanding how our economynworks. Believe it or not, there are organizations who have a mentality of "keep what you kill" and do not share their loot. They will still accept loot splits though as they expend resources to help the town as well as keeping what they have killed. Though this is not as popular as it once was - it is still a factor that must be taken into account.

Once again, I would recommend patience and observation in how things are run prior to attempting to implement change. While I can appreciate your enthusiasm, remember that Fortanis wasn't built in a day. It takes time for things to adapt and change and the best way to be a catalyst for said change is to work within the flow of things, not against them.
 
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Desky,

I hope you don't mean to imply that the majority of donated supplies that come to the Maelstrom- hundreds of crates of food, medicine, clothing, and other items- are the product of theft, because if that is the case I am an extremely talented international burglar and I am squandered by focusing on sacks of flour, baskets of limes, and boxes of nails.

In service,
Lord Terren of Knight's Ferry
 
Desky,

I hope you don't mean to imply that the majority of donated supplies that come to the Maelstrom [are theft (paraphrased)]

You leap to conclusions. A donation is not a "donation".

Here are some examples of what I mean:
Believe it or not, there are organizations who have a mentality of "keep what you kill" and do not share their loot. They will still accept loot splits though as they expend resources to help the town as well as keeping what they have kill
I will say that if we all can't figure out how to do this in a way that everyone is happy then I will personally be taking charge of the loot splits going forward and you will all have to deal with what I see fit and fair
my Artisan Battle Rod that contained 20 curative potions and almost 40 various protective and purification scrolls had been taken

In a society where these actions are normal, the percentile profits of production pale in comparison to other career paths.
 
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Here's a question, are you trying to get people to want to kill you?

I do not frequent dreams of other lands. But since I have dealings with sending supplies of potions to the maelstrom. I let my mind wander to see how things are. If this is the first message received when someone is willing to bring in wares. It makes me second guess the support provided.

Unlike many other areas, it seems to me that the Malestrom is more of a war zone than most other places I have been. I do not see anyone planning on setting up a home there, raising children and crops and making a living there. The reason that most artisans perform two batches is not to make more money - in fact such productions by default cost more to make which means fewer profits

This simply tells me that there is a need for even more stock of supplies. If one is able to bring in more goods to be used for the war. Why would anyone put down someone trying to bring in more goods. They didn't even have to say they have gotten them for cheaper. And could have just sold them outright.

Why are so many jumping to the conclusion that importing goods will kill off the local cottage industry? Is it a threat by local artisans and craftsfolk?

Could it not simply be the case that there is a surplus of wealth that could be converted to more goods to conduct your war with... a storm? Anyways I would put cold hard coin on there being a need for more supplies, and an excess of means to pay for it without negatively effecting the local artisans.

- Chuck Cookieson of Xiaohai

And this is one of the reasons supplying goods to your land seemed a good decision as you had the coin but not the supplies to support the war. As I am no small potion crafter as I can make in a single batch 10 cure mortal wounds potions. In the lands I currently reside I sell my wares at 3x cost unless purchased in bulk orders. I was even interesting in purchasing some wares from your lands but now that I see your need is so high I dare say I should take away from your stocks as such.

Xavic
Merchant and Potion Master
 
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