A frustration...

For the past year I've been experiencing the same frustrations over and over again. I've seen the community of adventurers consistently loosing their supplies to the military.

I'll first like to point out my view on the military. I feel that what our brave soldiers are doing is far beyond the call of duty that many of us have the luxury of declining. I respect and admire their devotion to this land and its' people. However, more and more I've seen adventurers taking up ranks among the enlisted.

What has this meant for us as an adventuring community? Well, in the good side of things we've gained new strings to be pulled. With Jonathan?s connections we were able to acquire a ward, free of charge through the kind soldiers at the barracks.

The downside? If one of our beloved ex-adventurers joins our group on an expedition, nearly all of the earnings we gathered along the trip are sent straight to the base upon our return. What do we usually see of it? Nothing.

We HAVE been given the courtesy of gold. And that is something not to be taken lightly as it pays our bills and keeps us fed.

To point out a particular note of frustration personally, is that the enlisted adventurers who partake in these "turn-ins" often benefit the most from the situation. As I said before, Jonathan was able to ask for a ward and they kindly obliged him.

But what of us? Granted, that ward helped me as well, but in such rare instances where things like that are to be given only to the select members of the military, I fail to see where we truly benefit from this on a personal level.

I also realize that the brave soldiers on the front lines are in just as much, if not more need of those items than we are...

I suppose in light of everything, I acknowledge the need for such activities to take place. I think it is just the frustration I feel on a personal, if not selfish level, from having seen a serious decrease in the acquired goods that remain in our possession.

~Izlude
 
I feel that whether or not I get paid for what I do does not matter. If I can help defend the people of the town from the evil things while I have nothing in my pocket or when I have a pocket o jinglein coins. That does not matter ta me. Yes some reimbersment would be nice. The the defensless cannot always pay to be saved.

Johnathan Hawks
 
I am thinkin' Izlude is talkin' more about the rulles and regs what say that the officers and men of the "Army" are havin' teh give up their loot to the army when they get it. Now, I know this rule well, and I have teh say tyhat I was never one for likin' it much myself. In fact? I look at it this way -

What I do on my own time is mine. What I do on their time? Theirs. They send me on a mission, it's their time. I send me on a mission? My time... see what I'm sayin'?

Rupert Bandenelli
Sgt Major (ret)
 
Aye I do see what ye are sayin. I was simply stating that if it's goin towards helping defend the town I am all for it. I do see whatchya mean though and as I said it would be nice to get some compensation from time to time for missions carried out for the military. However as I remember they ask for volunteers, but I meself have not been around the military that much I could be wrong.

Johnathan Hawks
 
Izlude_Oranes;17832 said:
For the past year I've been experiencing the same frustrations over and over again. I've seen the community of adventurers consistently loosing their supplies to the military.

~Izlude

I understand the issue, but I should say that most of what you are experiencing is from undue allocation of military resources. There are few reason to keep a military unit active in the region, and doing so has a costly drain on resources. For the state, there are two ways to pay for this- through taxation or by creating self-sufficient resources that maintain themselves.

The third option, is to remove troops from an official capacity. That would not be ideal, as apparently the area does have some occassionally dangerous crittes running amok.

The fourth option would be to hire mercanaries, not officially soldiers, and let them earn their own safe living in the town. There is often a useful implementation of hired hands in less suitable areas, and then a unit of grunts wouldn't be eating up the duchal coffers.

~Balryn
 
I think I may be having trouble following your line of thought Izlude.
*If you are a member of the military and are on a military mission, where your supplies and time are paid for by the military, what is the problem with giving your share of loot to the institution that put you there and kept you safe?
*If you are a member of the military and are not on a military mission, then you cannot be expected to give your share of the loot to the military, as neither your time nor your supplies are being paid for by the military.
*If you are nota member of the military and are on a military mission, then you should abide by whatever terms landed you in that position. For example, if you are a mercenary with instructions to give over what you find, and you agreed to these terms, again, you have no reason to complain.
*If you are not a member of the military and are not on a military mission, but one of your associates is either acting military, or the mission you are on has some sort of military importance that you are not a part of, the military is not entitled to any part of your loot. If the acting military person is on duty and they have some sort of arrangement to hand over what they find, what they find is "their share", not yours. They can turn in how ever much of their cut they want to, after it's been divided.

If someone is claiming that they are taking all of the loot from an encounter and turning it in to their command, and not giving other's a cut, that person should be brought up on charges of theft. Furthermore, they should be discluded from future outings. If they insist on trying to come with, make it very clear that they are not in charge, that they will not be taking what they find, and if they put up an argument, tie them up and leave them in a ditch until you return. You don't need those people butting in. They're just as bad as vulture looters.

~Kerjal
 
What I speak of is more in tuned to Sergeant Major Bandenelli mentioned. I feel that when a task is issued by the millitary and completed for the millitary, then of course, it is their time.

However, I am afraid that some of the adventurers-turned-military will continue this cycle of giving things they pick up on "our" time just because they feel obligated, though not ordered by their superiors to partake in the mission at hand.
 
I would also like to note that there may be some clarifications needed as well. What exactly a person in my possition can do to prevent such matters is to ask a bit more before heading out with the military adventurers. I should protect myself by simply asking if this is official Andar business or just adventuring business.
 
Izlude_Oranes;17850 said:
I would also like to note that there may be some clarifications needed as well. What exactly a person in my possition can do to prevent such matters is to ask a bit more before heading out with the military adventurers. I should protect myself by simply asking if this is official Andar business or just adventuring business.

I would also mention, while I do not have conflict with anyone in the nation of Andar, if you wear your uniform or heraldry on an adventure I would assume that you are acting in an official capacity for the government. Thusly, an adventurer may not want any official representive of the state traveling with them on personal matters.

Perhaps I could suggest that the military types wear more notable items of duty? I know in at least one of my knighthoods we covered our heraldry whenever we acted on personal business. This identifies your purpose and also saves potential grace if you do something that is taken the wrong way on personal time. There is nothing like a military officer accidentally declaring war because he wore his uniform into the wrong bar fight.

~Balryn
 
I agree with Balryn. Wearing articles of clothing that make one seem less offical would be more ideal, however, I am uncertain if there are any rules such as this but out of curiosity I shall ask. Are Knights or any other sort of fighting unit not permitted to be involved in tavern/street brawls otherwise face punishment by their superior officers?

But yes, wearing clothes that don't make you seem near as stiff and make others possibly tense, I honestly don't know how the majority of adventurers feel about the military, would be ideal I believe. By stiff I merely am trying to convey the sense of feeling confined or shackled in a manner. When one wears a uniform they can feel like they are not their own person anymore, in some cases I have heard.

Balryn;17852 said:
I would also mention, while I do not have conflict with anyone in the nation of Andar, if you wear your uniform or heraldry on an adventure I would assume that you are acting in an official capacity for the government. Thusly, an adventurer may not want any official representive of the state traveling with them on personal matters.

Perhaps I could suggest that the military types wear more notable items of duty? I know in at least one of my knighthoods we covered our heraldry whenever we acted on personal business. This identifies your purpose and also saves potential grace if you do something that is taken the wrong way on personal time. There is nothing like a military officer accidentally declaring war because he wore his uniform into the wrong bar fight.

~Balryn
 
allow me to clarify...

You must have come from a strange place to have all these crazy ideas in your head...

"I've seen the community of adventurers consistently loosing their supplies to the military."

I balk at you calling it a community of adventurers, communities work together, despite their differences. The military is a cohesive whole, adventurers tend to act as individuals. The military is the sword of the crown, if Their Royal Highnesses wish to appropriate the resources they already own, they are free to do so. You are not losing supplies, since they were never yours to begin with.

"I'll first like to point out my view on the military. I feel that what our brave soldiers are doing is far beyond the call of duty that many of us have the luxury of declining. I respect and admire their devotion to this land and its' people. However, more and more I've seen adventurers taking up ranks among the enlisted."

What we are doing *IS* the call of duty. We don't serve "The Military" we serve the Crown of Andar. If the Crown wishes you to be impressed into the military, you *don't* have a choice. All you can do at that point is commit treason or sedition.


"What has this meant for us as an adventuring community? Well, in the good side of things we've gained new strings to be pulled. With Jonathan?s connections we were able to acquire a ward, free of charge through the kind soldiers at the barracks."

That ward didn't come free, whether you see it or not there is a price to be paid. That also curiously sounds like "string" not strings. Jonathan has a poor personal reputation among the officers, because he was raised from the ranks. He has a poor personal reputation among the enlisted men because nobody likes a class jumper. Their jealousy at his sucess (or their fear he will take their commission) has led some rather horrible things to hapen to Lancaster. (I myself have nothing against him, having interacted with him but once.)
The soldiers at the barracks are really the wrong people to be talking to for supplies, conversations with the quartermaster will result in cheaper prices and faster turnaround time.

"The downside? If one of our beloved ex-adventurers joins our group on an expedition, nearly all of the earnings we gathered along the trip are sent straight to the base upon our return. What do we usually see of it? Nothing."


It sounds like you have a few less than scrupulous soldiers among you, then. They aren't tithed , nor are taxes levied (other than standard income taxation) against those wages that occur under the Spoils of War act of 456. If you want your cut of the treasure, don't blame the military or the crown when the guy you trusted to be fair and split the loot with you books it back to base. Your trust in him, and his lack of morals is the real problem. All funds that *are* turned over do provide something, they provide Officers such as myself to protect you, supplies flowing unobstructed from Silverford and the provinces, gear and goods manufactured by military personnell for civilian use, and the benefit to the economy all of this provides. Judging from what I remember of the dreamscape, most of what you're upset about happened in your otherwhere here; so if it really is *this* country you're talking about, please continue, if not, you get the point...

"We HAVE been given the courtesy of gold. And that is something not to be taken lightly as it pays our bills and keeps us fed.

We do pay citizens who contract their services to us, and of recent note, several citizens of this town have completed important work for us, and were quite happy with the monies they received for their cooperation. The military was quite happy with the results as well, because we learned some information we could not have otherwise obtained.

"To point out a particular note of frustration personally, is that the enlisted adventurers who partake in these "turn-ins" often benefit the most from the situation. As I said before, Jonathan was able to ask for a ward and they kindly obliged him."

It is bacause they have established contact with us, and have proven themselves capable. I said earlier that Jonathan has a poor *personal* reputation, but the fact of the matter is this: He is still a war hero. and no amount of noble officer snobbery, or envy from a footsoldier will ever tarnish the fact that he has done great things for this Kingdom. Even if it is grudging respect, Jonathan still deserves it for what he's done, and that is the real reason Jonathan can walk up and ask for a ward and get one.

"But what of us? Granted, that ward helped me as well, but in such rare instances where things like that are to be given only to the select members of the military, I fail to see where we truly benefit from this on a personal level."

You'd see how you benefit personally a little better if you were still here, but a llantry citizen. You really don't want them here, since they can't feed their own people. that drastically alters their war tactics. They'll take all of you and turn you into lesser undead (since then you don't need to eat) and use you to work the fields for eternity. How you benefit is through the supposed community of adventurers. Not just military have been given aid, and those who are in Crossroads often lend their strength of arms to the "objectives of the town." I would ask again if this is indeed the country or people you are upset at...

"I also realize that the brave soldiers on the front lines are in just as much, if not more need of those items than we are..."

No, no just as much, or more. More. They are not fighting monsters, they are fighting the darkness of man. Llantry is a perfect example of a kingdom fallen. They allied with the undying, and once the undead achieve their goal, they'll just take out llantry next. The Enemy has access to the treasure caches of lich-kings, therefore, our soldiers on the front take priority. Yes, you feel like you did a good job when you kill 50 undead that came to town, but you aren't witness to us fighting hundreds of thousands of them, and their human lackeys to boot.

"I suppose in light of everything, I acknowledge the need for such activities to take place. I think it is just the frustration I feel on a personal, if not selfish level, from having seen a serious decrease in the acquired goods that remain in our possession."

War is hell. Rationing does that to you. Come to the barracks southeast of town about six wheels, I'll introduce you to the Lady Magister, and Major Hawke, our quartermaster. It might help a little if you got involved in the War, even if you claim you are from anotherwhere, you're here for now, and that makes it home for the time being.

Squire Capt. Ajun Wheeling, AMC
 
Miss Lhrayven

"I am uncertain if there are any rules such as this but out of curiosity I shall ask. Are Knights or any other sort of fighting unit not permitted to be involved in tavern/street brawls otherwise face punishment by their superior officers?"

Members of the Peerage are given the right of Low Justice, and in some cases High Justice. This means that the only violent crime a member of the peerage can commit is to strike their superior. Knights and Squires in this realm rarely hold military rank, but those that do tend to be legends, such as Squire Shikar.

There are a few cases of Squires holding the right of Low Justice, but this is awarded for very specific reasons. High Justice is never granted to squires.

the powers of Low Justice are the powers of corporal punishment, taxation, confiscation of goods/land patents on the crown's behalf, arrest and the right to bear arms. The right to bear arms means that this person is trusted by the crown with a sword, they won't use it to do something bad. So if a Knight or a Squire draws their sword, the Crown backs their play (unless, like I said, it's their superior.)

High Justice is the power to execute, to strip hereditary lands/titles/monies, imprison, interrogate, appoint, and wage war.

Anyone without the rights of Justice is in trouble if they start a brawl.

Squire Capt. Ajun Wheeling, AMC
 
Izlude,

Most of your concerns have been well addressed by this point, so I will add only a few comments of my own.

A modern military depends on a good supply chain. The Andarian military forces have now been fighting a major war for over a year, and only recently has a cease-fire been declared. To be honest I am amazed at the leniency granted to the citizens of the Crossroads - we have had no special war taxations, we have had no drafts or press-ganging except in very specific situations where the Crossroads themselves were attacked, and we have had to give up virtually nothing of our own comforts and necessities for the war effort. While the Crossroads is far from a safe place, it is also far from the front lines. The attacks repelled by the Crossroads have been nothing compared to the seige of Silverford or the assault on the University of Andar; we should feel blessed that the Andarian forces had the supplies to repel their attackers where they did.

To be honest, I would have expected these sorts of comments from a wartime society which had had multiple rounds of war taxes, severe rationing of supplies from all sources, and drafting of recruits from throughout the adventuring population. For our situation, we should count ourselves lucky that little more was asked of the general Adventuring population.

I will note that there are a number of individuals in the Crossroads who gave more than merely what was asked for. These individuals should be respected, not scorned - their efforts helped repel Llantry.

On a separate note, many of the supplies destined for the Crossroads Earth and Celestial Guildhalls were held up for the last two years or more. Only recently have supplies been flowing back to our Guilds; thus there should be little surprise that after so little supplies for so long the Guilds (and additionally the military) has greater need of supply requisitioning for some time.

-Polare Lissenstine
Seneschal to Count Di'Orsini
 
Well I am only traveling most of the time, but my friends and family are often moving things from here to there. The roads of every land are dangerous, but even in the course of Andar there are ways for a commoner to share burden of protecting themselves.

No, I can't say. Much if nothing makes sense in dreaming. The cold air and brisk wind in the sail. Tell the men to secure the goose molly. I'll be amazed if this wine makes it to Fullborn.

The crossroad did not seem like it was under the scrutinty of large scale attack when I inquired at the trading exchange, perhaps I'll visit the war front and survey the front line. I'm always amazed by the way typical human military commanders resolve battlefield engagements and find the study of human warfare very interesting. The whole process of consumable goods, moral, and general supply chain resolution is a fairly remarkable task to process.

Hmmm... the pondering of waking thought. I really need to get back to the war front, I've been gone too long. Things always get cloudy when you fall too deep to slumber.

~Balryn
 
Squire Capt. Ajun Wheeling,

I believe the situation that Izlude is talking about was a raid on a bandit camp in wich Lt. Lancaster and myself were in attendance. The "loot" from the raid was of necromantic nature and stolen gems. They were turned into the base, an itemised list of what was there has been sent to the guard house and I believe that the Lt. has one as well. I belive that Izude is upset that he did not get to take evidence away from the raid to add to his pockets. Now I am sorry that if the original intent of the group going was to take out a bandit camp and keep the stolen items there for themselves, but with the presence of the Lt and myself, arresting the bandits and taking the stolen loot back was the right thing to do.


Lt. Demitri Salvatore
Andar Military
 
As the person leading said group, I can assure you no one was going to be keeping any stolen goods from that camp. If you or Lt Lancaster had not been present, the scroll would have gone to the earth guild to be disposed of or sent to the capitol for whatever they use them for. Just like any other scrolls of items of such nature I've recovered in the past.
Anyone who doesn't want to be included in any future endeavors that have limited reward potential please contact me, I'll be sure to invite you along or not accordingly in the future.
 
Aaron Tyrson;17885 said:
Squire Capt. Ajun Wheeling,

I believe the situation that Izlude is talking about was a raid on a bandit camp in wich Lt. Lancaster and myself were in attendance. The "loot" from the raid was of necromantic nature and stolen gems. They were turned into the base, an itemised list of what was there has been sent to the guard house and I believe that the Lt. has one as well. I belive that Izude is upset that he did not get to take evidence away from the raid to add to his pockets. Now I am sorry that if the original intent of the group going was to take out a bandit camp and keep the stolen items there for themselves, but with the presence of the Lt and myself, arresting the bandits and taking the stolen loot back was the right thing to do.


Lt. Demitri Salvatore
Andar Military

Forgive me for sounding defensive but I am in no means intent on keeping or being upset at the return of stolen goods or the disposal of necromantic items. My frustration was derrived from the potential abuse that these situations could be subjected to. I am not without honor and assure you in the fullest that my desires do NOT lay in the aquisition of stolen or illegal possesions. I myself have reported or destroyed illegal alchemical elixers and necromantic potions that I have come across in my time at the Crossroads and before.

Izlude Oranes
 
Izlude,

You certintly have every right to sound defensive. And in turn, I am not accousing you of being a thief, I appologies of it sounded that way. you can ask some people around town, if its just a basic adventure that I am going on, or if I have asked some people to go with me, loot is distrubuted the best way possable, the only things that I confiscate are illegal or if they are stolen, like in a bandit camp. If it was a normal advntur that some of you ask me to go on, then loot is loot.

Solomon,

Thank you for your honesty, I would be willing to go with you on any more missons as the bandit camp.

To every one,

I am sorry that this has been brought up, I do what must be done by law. If it is necromantic in nature it gets confiscated, and turned over to be destroyed. If it is a bandit camp, odds are it has been stolen and it will be taken to the right people to hopefully be taken to the people they were stolen from. I am sorry if this is not to the adventuring standereds, but this is my job and duty.


Lt. Demitri Salvatory
Andar Military
 
Aaron Tyrson;17892 said:
Izlude,
If it is necromantic in nature it gets confiscated, and turned over to be destroyed.

Since I may have to travel through these lands again at some time, is there a declaration of what creates a necromantic item? I was witness to a large number of them being carried around by a good portion of the town a short while ago, and they were collected and used in a ritual that several members of the military seemed to have authorized. Are some necromantic items legal in this land? I didn't see anyone interefering or being arrested, so I thought it was simply being done under the permission of the governing authority.

I would also like to inquire if creatures and/or various types of undead are classified as 'necromantic items', or if they have another governing law regarding them. I came across several vampires that seemed to be very at ease in the township, and again I thought it was simply a matter of proper legal action. (Can one be undead here with the proper writ?)

and lastly, are components used specifically in necromantic rituals also illegal? or are simply the scrolls themselves? If so, does the military pay a bounty for collection of such components and rituals?

~Balryn
 
Balryn;17893 said:
Since I may have to travel through these lands again at some time, is there a declaration of what creates a necromantic item?
Any item that produces an effect which may be cloaked by Cloak vs Necromancy is a necromantic item.

@~}~~
G
 
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