[.11] Alternative Life Idea

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
So, with the discussion that's been coming up a lot, there's a concern that seems to exist that by creating an additional source of "Fix Dead," there'll be too many "Fix Dead" solutions in the game economy that will render "Dead" useless.

The current solution, the Life spell, puts exclusive pressure on Earth Caster players to memorize a specific spell that no other character build experiences.

If the game economy requires that a single-solution to "Fix Dead" must exist, then I propose a radical solution, which will also address another need that I feel our game economy needs.

Delete the Life spell, and replace it with a non-production item (akin to wands, components, and spellbooks) that costs a fixed amount of coin, cannot be Merchanted back, and will not drop as treasure policy.

I name my proposal "Ointment of Life." (This differentiates it from Alchemy, Potions, and Scrolls, intentionally.)

I propose it costs 5 gold per purchase (expensive, but relatively reachable), can be purchased by anyone, and has no expiration date (or, if it must have an expiration date, that it's no earlier than a year).

By doing this, Earth Casters will still remain the premier healers and fixers in the game, but will now be free to use Earth Storms, Doom, Circles of Power, or lower-level spells mem'd in 9th free of the pressure of having the exclusive access to "Fix Dead." Additionally, this solution would absolutely result in chapters saving money on coin. Furthermore, by tracking purchases of "Ointment of Life," Plot can measure lethality. If they feel there's a fair amount of Ointment in the player's hands, they can play a bit more deadly, or even throw out nefarious bad guys who like to throw Shatters that target Ointment of Life!

A final benefit would be that while it would be costly (at least, compared to production items), it is not a cost that cannot be reached, even by lower-level players. That means that low-level groups with compositions that don't include a primary healer (or even any healer), they can still equip themselves.

This solution will free up players to play the characters they want to play, and invest their coin to compensate for any skill disadvantages they might lack. I think that will result in a game that can be both dangerous but more fun for everyone.
 

Lurin

Duke
Wouldn't this change make it arguably vastly more expensive for a higher level character to assist younger/less equipped players in need? Coin and economics also vary significantly by chapter in what percentage of the loot policy goes out as raw coin.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Wouldn't this change make it arguably vastly more expensive for a higher level character to assist younger/less equipped players in need? Coin and economics also vary significantly by chapter in what percentage of the loot policy goes out as raw coin.
I'm not stuck on a specific coin amount, and I'm open to the pricing being local/Plot-adjustable. I just don't want someone to make the argument "It's too cheap, there'll be 500 in town all the time!" if that makes sense.
 

Inaryn

Knight
About as likely to fly as a lead balloon.

But that doesn't mean it has gone unnoticed that there's a wheel squeaking...
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I'm hoping that the opportunity to save cash on coin orders by having something worth spending gold on that isn't an RP item or production might be enticing to the owners.

Money talks, right?
 

Tantarus

Squire
I kinda like this idea. And the easy fix for worrying about high levels spending them on random low levels is create a culture where you reimburse someone who used one on you. Or next time people will be less likely to use it for you.
 

Feldor

Scholar
I think this is awfully close to going back to the old "pay gold for XP" days. Also, it basically makes life infinite for "I don't carry gold, only platinum" characters, while making it super-dear for low level folks. If you make it something that a 10th level earth scholar could afford to buy 1 per event, the high level team will have 100 of them banked within a year.

Honestly, I think durasive consumable life items are the wrong answer. If you want a consumable, it needs to expire. Anything permanent will be hoarded.

~~~~~

I mean, alternatively, maybe the answer is the amount of silver you need to pay for the life item to work is the square of the targets level. So its 4 silver for a new player, but that high level character might cost 15+ gold... This does solve some of the complaints about life spells being unavailable for lower level folks. There might be fights where you have 4 gold of ointment left, and its worth rez'ing the 4 10th levelers instead of the one 20th leveler...
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I think this is awfully close to going back to the old "pay gold for XP" days. Also, it basically makes life infinite for "I don't carry gold, only platinum" characters, while making it super-dear for low level folks. If you make it something that a 10th level earth scholar could afford to buy 1 per event, the high level team will have 100 of them banked within a year.

Honestly, I think durasive consumable life items are the wrong answer. If you want a consumable, it needs to expire. Anything permanent will be hoarded.

~~~~~

I mean, alternatively, maybe the answer is the amount of silver you need to pay for the life item to work is the square of the targets level. So its 4 silver for a new player, but that high level character might cost 15+ gold... This does solve some of the complaints about life spells being unavailable for lower level folks. There might be fights where you have 4 gold of ointment left, and its worth rez'ing the 4 10th levelers instead of the one 20th leveler...
I don’t mind expiration (and I think it needs to be chapter-specific, too). I just don’t want it to expire after an event, unless it’s drastically reduces in cost.
 

Tantarus

Squire
In the NW I think the lowbies are just as well off gold wise as the highbies. Maybe it is just a NW thing but they do town splits so everyone gets even money from big town battles, and mods dont seem to scale reward at all based on difficulty, meaning that lowbies come out with the same loot there as well.

This is why I tend not to mod to much much, the risk vs reward for high levels is way out of balance and the resources highbies use on mods rarely justifies the rewards.
 

Melimir

Newbie
Asheville Staff
Why not just use reagents? They already exist in the game, have expiration dates, and it would create a use for non-formalists. Have the user break the popsicle stick in half to activate "releasing the stored magic in the item' which also renders it unusable for ritual casting. Gives a purpose for carrying them around too, not just locked up in chests. Plus every time a lowbie finds one, they have a use for it instead of just selling it to a larger/higher level group.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Why not just use reagents? They already exist in the game, have expiration dates, and it would create a use for non-formalists. Have the user break the popsicle stick in half to activate "releasing the stored magic in the item' which also renders it unusable for ritual casting. Gives a purpose for carrying them around too, not just locked up in chests. Plus every time a lowbie finds one, they have a use for it instead of just selling it to a larger/higher level group.
I like this, and it is a real cost for people to burn them like that.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Why not just use reagents? They already exist in the game, have expiration dates, and it would create a use for non-formalists. Have the user break the popsicle stick in half to activate "releasing the stored magic in the item' which also renders it unusable for ritual casting. Gives a purpose for carrying them around too, not just locked up in chests. Plus every time a lowbie finds one, they have a use for it instead of just selling it to a larger/higher level group.
I'd legit be on board with this idea.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Or is it the threat of Permanent Character Death through Resurrection?
It's that. Because that means the loss of IG connections that you have an OOG enjoyment from, the loss of $$$ from costuming and props that you now need to play a new character, and the loss of IG influence due to power and connections that you had before.
 

Shades

Newbie
What about making a lower level 'lesser life' spell or potion. like 'reinforce spirit'. Say something that if you have it cast on you while dead, you still resurrect, but the death doesn't get marked on your character card. This still makes dying a cost, but will remove the character from the fight.
 

Ken

Artisan
Alliance Logistics
Why not just use reagents? They already exist in the game, have expiration dates, and it would create a use for non-formalists. Have the user break the popsicle stick in half to activate "releasing the stored magic in the item' which also renders it unusable for ritual casting. Gives a purpose for carrying them around too, not just locked up in chests. Plus every time a lowbie finds one, they have a use for it instead of just selling it to a larger/higher level group.
I could see this sort of idea going into a concept trial for a crafting system. Maybe:
Life Potion needs reagent X, Life Elixir needs reagent Y. Both still need PP+coin. Unlike other consumables of their type, they have expiration dates. And maybe they're repped in somewhat larger bottles or something to distinguish them.
 

Melimir

Newbie
Asheville Staff
I could see this sort of idea going into a concept trial for a crafting system. Maybe:
Life Potion needs reagent X, Life Elixir needs reagent Y. Both still need PP+coin. Unlike other consumables of their type, they have expiration dates. And maybe they're repped in somewhat larger bottles or something to distinguish them.
See but now its getting more complicated than it needs to be. As long as they're not LCO they travel. Secondly, the local economies of the chapters can determine the value, much like they currently do. And thirdly, reagents are a resource only usable by a minority of players, this gives everyone a reason to want to use them. Plus as long as the drop rate isn't increased (which I do not think it should be), the scarcity of them will be maintained (I believe its a function of the number of players at the event) and even more importantly plot can control the drop rate.

It is simple, effective, and we don't introduce new things into the game.
 

MaxIrons

Squire
Oregon Staff
Marshal
See but now its getting more complicated than it needs to be. As long as they're not LCO they travel. Secondly, the local economies of the chapters can determine the value, much like they currently do. And thirdly, reagents are a resource only usable by a minority of players, this gives everyone a reason to want to use them. Plus as long as the drop rate isn't increased (which I do not think it should be), the scarcity of them will be maintained (I believe its a function of the number of players at the event) and even more importantly plot can control the drop rate.

It is simple, effective, and we don't introduce new things into the game.
I agree with almost all of that, but currently plot is required to drop a certain number of them per game, they can only choose when during the game they are dropped. Other than that, I'm a proponent of K.I.S.S. (Keep It Super Simple) and I'm okay with reagents having the ability to move someone from dead to 0. I don't personally think it's necessary, but it wouldn't bother me if this was the case.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
See but now its getting more complicated than it needs to be. As long as they're not LCO they travel. Secondly, the local economies of the chapters can determine the value, much like they currently do. And thirdly, reagents are a resource only usable by a minority of players, this gives everyone a reason to want to use them. Plus as long as the drop rate isn't increased (which I do not think it should be), the scarcity of them will be maintained (I believe its a function of the number of players at the event) and even more importantly plot can control the drop rate.

It is simple, effective, and we don't introduce new things into the game.
I agree that simplicity is extremely important. Additionally, I wanted to remove the need for build investment in order to avoid X class/build from being pressured to make "Fix Death" solution. Assigning Life to PP instead of Earth 9 just means someone else is going to get the pressure.
 

Melimir

Newbie
Asheville Staff
currently plot is required to drop a certain number of them per game, they can only choose when during the game they are dropped.
Of course. But plot can control when they drop or to a lesser extent to whom they drop (via mods). Big fight planned for 10pm? Drop a few on a mod at 8pm. Or the PC's haven't been pressured hard and still have a lot of resources at their disposal, drop them after. I trust plot fully to control that sort of tempo, and to be mindful of PC resource expenditure.
 
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