[.11] Alternative Slayer Idea

Feldor

Adept
Marshal
There seems to be some preference to do away with the current slayer style. I know at least one playtest asked people to not bring slayers; and commented that it worked well.

Maybe as an alternative slayer idea:
When death striking, you may append to the end of the killing blow call "TYPE slayer" (example: "killing blow 3" becomes "killing blow 3 elemental slayer"). If the NPC acknowledges taking the slayer, the person doing the killing blow is healed for 15/30/45 depending on the level of the ritual.

This avoids the awkwardness of needing to ask the npc if they are affected during combat time by a given slayer.

This also leaves open the option of using slayer like the silver blade example in the rulebook for LCO monsters.

This is not as strong as the current slayer ritual, and is not intended to be. Its intended instead to provide some self healing for big fighters; and to avoid some of the current awkwardness around the way the current ritual works.
 

Ruki

Scholar
I like the idea of healing on a killing blow.

Or perhaps instead of straight body damage, it could allow a once per day eviscerate/terminate? Or double the strength of your slays/assassinates against the targeted creatures (thus limiting it to the amount of slays you have)
 

MaxIrons

Knight
Marshal
@Feldor, that is a very elegant solution for slayers/reavers. Something similar could be done with it being a per logistics ritual that "recharges" a skill in place of the recharge prowess ritual, with the same restrictions on recharging found there.

Straight healing/necro works just fine by me though.
 

norman b

Squire
Marshal
I feel like giving healing to someone else takes away from the teamwork aspect 2.0 is going for (kind of like eternal resolution, but that's charge based). Let healers heal.

What's to stop those people from killing blow the same creature over and over, healing themselves. Or killing blow each creature healing themselves?

I would be fine with reavers/slayers just going away
 

Shades

Newbie
Looking at the Monster Slayer list
Animal Construct Cursed Dragon Extraplanar Creature Fey Goblinoid Humanoid Insect
Griffin, Hunter, Rider Magical Creature Lupoid Ogroid Plant Reptoid Trolloid Undead
It feels to me that undead is really the only one that is a problem. I propose the following
Replacement Ritual
"Favored Enemy"
Aspect: Celestial Difficulty: 5 Catalyst Required: No
NPC Only Ritual: No Role Play Only: No Scroll Type: Spirit
Casting Time: 5 Minutes Duration: One Year May Be Extended: Yes
Animal Construct Cursed Dragon Extraplanar Creature Fey Goblinoid Humanoid Insect
Griffin, Hunter, Rider Magical Creature Lupoid Ogroid Plant Reptoid Trolloid
A character may only have one Favored Enemy ritual.

I really like the idea of someone being the one person with the weird favored enemy, and then being really excited when those are sent out.
 
The problem is that unless makeup / costuming is perfect, it is often difficult to determine whether a NPC should be affected by your slayer. In HQ we once had a fight that included both Banshees and undead. It was plot appropriate, but that didn't help the VERY experienced player who was swinging +6 damage against my Banshee because he assumed I was a non-corporeal undead. He stopped when I corrected him, but I only realized what he was doing about halfway through the battle.

It really is one of the only effects in the game that requires that the player using it have OOG knowledge about the target that they don't necessarily have IG knowledge about. It creates holds, confusion, and lots of OOG conversations mid-battle in the current form. Preferably, if the ritual remains, a solution can be found that solves those problems.

-MS
 

Inaryn

Knight
Honestly, I wouldn't feel inferior if it did a 10/20/30 point heal on a successful killing blow. And doing it that way would fix the entire issue of having to have OOG knowledge about your target. "Killing blow one, two, three, Lupoid Slayer" just needs a response of "taken, no" or "taken, yes" for the person doing the KB to get their heal.

It's streamlined, elegant, and still niche enough that I really don't think healers would feel threatened by it.
 

norman b

Squire
Marshal
Honestly, I wouldn't feel inferior if it did a 10/20/30 point heal on a successful killing blow. And doing it that way would fix the entire issue of having to have OOG knowledge about your target. "Killing blow one, two, three, Lupoid Slayer" just needs a response of "taken, no" or "taken, yes" for the person doing the KB to get their heal.

It's streamlined, elegant, and still niche enough that I really don't think healers would feel threatened by it.
Unless they just killing blow over and over again, negating the need for a healer.
 

norman b

Squire
Marshal
Looking at the Monster Slayer list
Animal Construct Cursed Dragon Extraplanar Creature Fey Goblinoid Humanoid Insect
Griffin, Hunter, Rider Magical Creature Lupoid Ogroid Plant Reptoid Trolloid Undead
It feels to me that undead is really the only one that is a problem. I propose the following
Replacement Ritual
"Favored Enemy"
Aspect: Celestial Difficulty: 5 Catalyst Required: No
NPC Only Ritual: No Role Play Only: No Scroll Type: Spirit
Casting Time: 5 Minutes Duration: One Year May Be Extended: Yes
Animal Construct Cursed Dragon Extraplanar Creature Fey Goblinoid Humanoid Insect
Griffin, Hunter, Rider Magical Creature Lupoid Ogroid Plant Reptoid Trolloid
A character may only have one Favored Enemy ritual.

I really like the idea of someone being the one person with the weird favored enemy, and then being really excited when those are sent out.
Undead was double crappy but any time you can just ignore armor on any enemy without using illegal means (necromancy) cheapens necromancy too. Body is a brutal carrier. Get rid of it is the only option.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Unless they just killing blow over and over again, negating the need for a healer.
"This ritual only works once per target of a Killing Blow." Fixed. Not hard.
 
I feel like the Healing is a good idea but if you want to keep healers as healers than have it be that the killing blow grants you +5 Temp Body that drops at the end of the 10 min duration. It means that you get a little stronger as you fight through hordes of your slayer type on your way to fight more elite enemies.

If you do not capitalize on pace then you run out of time and lose all that extra body. If you try to active another slayer then you lose all current temp Body but can start building again with the next type.

If does not remove the need for healers but can give anyone some breathing room until a healer can get to them or if their healers are down.
 

Feldor

Adept
Marshal
Temp body or temp armor wouldn't be bad. Healing has the "problem" that if you are "living in your armor" (aka refitting before you take body damage) the slayer isn't useful. It also fixes the possible issue where you get a collection of enemy bodies on the ground, and hand the weapon around to top off people who need healing; which is not really the feel I'd want from a slayer.

If you wanted a mild power up, you could make it be something like "5/10/15 temp armor, 10 minute duration. Multiple killing blows stack, but total temp armor can not exceed current armor size. Does not stack with empowered armor ritual. "
 

Draven

Count
I feel like a lot of these ideas are trying to find a way to preserve Slayer without really considering if our game really needs Slayer to remain.

If we’re saving it for the sake of saving it, maybe we just need to let it go.
 

Feldor

Adept
Marshal
I feel like a lot of these ideas are trying to find a way to preserve Slayer without really considering if our game really needs Slayer to remain.

If we’re saving it for the sake of saving it, maybe we just need to let it go.
You have a solid point. There's no reason what I'm suggested needs to be named slayer. It just seemed to fit vaguely thematically (ie something that works only against a single creature type), and let us keep a multi-level weapon enchant.
 

Eldor

Artisan
The removal of many of the effects of magic items, I feel made the game better and made your class more meaningful. As an earth caster I really don't want to see a healing effect added for non earth casters, it diminishes an earth casters reason for existing in the game.

Slayers and Revers are not needed in any form for the game to be better, yet the game is better with their absence.
 

Cedric

Rogue
Marshal
I think most of us are of the feeling that slayers, as they were, just don't work well in the new system. Let's abandon them and then ask our owners to direct ARC to come up with 3-5 areas where we don't have enough good choices for rituals (perhaps scholars? Channelers? Crafters?). They could review the playtest feedback and see what might be best? I think that's better than using our time to fix slayers.
 
I added to my playtest recap but if slayers, revers, damage aura were all done away with I would love to see that effort be channeled into diversity of high level play.

The concept of a "High Crafting" or "Master Productionist" kind of skill that has some minor abilities like High Magic and some Master Schema to work off of like Crafting Rituals would be amazing.

I adore the idea of a scene where one or more crafters are huddled around a boffer anvil role-playing the crafting of a Master Item or Artifact.
 

Draven

Count
I added to my playtest recap but if slayers, revers, damage aura were all done away with I would love to see that effort be channeled into diversity of high level play.

The concept of a "High Crafting" or "Master Productionist" kind of skill that has some minor abilities like High Magic and some Master Schema to work off of like Crafting Rituals would be amazing.

I adore the idea of a scene where one or more crafters are huddled around a boffer anvil role-playing the crafting of a Master Item or Artifact.
I understand the draw of the concept, and why it sounds thematically awesome.

However, when all is tabulated, if PCs can make Ultra Awesome Items, the game will turn into Those Who Own the Ultra Awesome Items, and Those Who Don’t. Good magic items in 2.0 still exist, but not to the extent that they exist in 1.3 (Damage Aura/Six Slayers, Four Weapon Auras, Etc Etc Etc). The ability to make useful items should absolutely remain an integral part of the game, but not Master Swords or the equivalent.
 
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