Enslavement and Amnesia question.

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So I've been debating this for the last day or so with a couple other players.
We've been running over this hypothetical situation of a character, Anne, enslaving another character, Bob. Suppose Bob was fed his enslavement in such a manner that he didn't know it was Anne who administered it. As we understand it, Bob should know that he's enslaved but not know who has voice control over him.

Here's the part that we're not entirely sure on:
Suppose Anne comes to Bob and finally gives him some commands (to be carried out at a later time) and feeds him an amnesia.
Would Bob still know who has VC over him?
Would Bob still have to follow said commands?
If so, would Bob know that he had to carry out those commands when the time came?
 

phedre

Squire
Amulnar Mannik said:
So I've been debating this for the last day or so with a couple other players.
We've been running over this hypothetical situation of a character, Anne, enslaving another character, Bob. Suppose Bob was fed his enslavement in such a manner that he didn't know it was Anne who administered it. As we understand it, Bob should know that he's enslaved but not know who has voice control over him.

Here's the part that we're not entirely sure on:
Suppose Anne comes to Bob and finally gives him some commands (to be carried out at a later time) and feeds him an amnesia.
Would Bob still know who has VC over him?
If you're amnesia'ed after being enslaved or given orders, you don't remember who enslaved you, that you are enslaved, or that you've got orders. (You still have to follow all the OOG rules for Enslavement.)

Amulnar Mannik said:
Would Bob still have to follow said commands?
Yes. The compulsion to follow the orders is not negated by the amnesia, only the memory of getting the order.

Amulnar Mannik said:
If so, would Bob know that he had to carry out those commands when the time came?
Yes. He won't know why he wants to do these things, but he does. I've heard it explained as a nagging compulsion to do (or not do) whatever was ordered, without being entirely sure why.

If the situation arises and you as a player are unsure about anything, go see your local rules marshal or Head of Rules.
 
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phedre

Squire
Well... players can't make Enslavements. If as a PC you somehow get one and plan to use it on another PC, you should probably go talk to your plot team about the particulars of using it.
 
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Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
Mike Ventrella said:
We should also add that a player cannot enslave another player. Enslavement is an NPC thing only. :thumbsup:

Can we have an addendum to this effect? If the intent is that PCs can never use/obtain this effect then it needs to be in clear language that this is not acceptable even on an LCO level.
 
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phedre

Squire
I'd think that would require an owner vote...?

It's probably something that should be brought up at Symposium if that was the intention.
 
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Toddo said:
Mike Ventrella said:
We should also add that a player cannot enslave another player. Enslavement is an NPC thing only. :thumbsup:

Can we have an addendum to this effect? If the intent is that PCs can never use/obtain this effect then it needs to be in clear language that this is not acceptable even on an LCO level.

Page 112 (in edition 1.1):

Note that just about any effect can be a monster ability, and some of these can only be NPC abilities (such as Enslavement or Vampire Charm).

Page 110 in the older edition: http://alliancelarp.com/rb110.pdf

Not sure how to make it clearer than that.
 
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Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
I retract the comment. Sorry bout that. :tears:
 
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zehnyu

Squire
Mike Ventrella said:
Page 112 (in edition 1.1):

Note that just about any effect can be a monster ability, and some of these can only be NPC abilities (such as Enslavement or Vampire Charm).

Page 110 in the older edition: http://alliancelarp.com/rb110.pdf

Not sure how to make it clearer than that.

As per those two statements, that refers to monster abilities that are NPC only - that a PC could never obtain them as 'abilities'. However, anything in potion/elixir form is considered an ig item, and therefore stealable as per the ARB, which would include Enslavement Elixirs. Potions/Elixers are not included in the 'stealable' section of the rulebook, however they are defined as an in game 'tagged' item, so they would be classified under the 'other' category.

From the Rulebook:
If you can somehow manage to open someone’s pouch and take the game items within without that person noticing, then that is fine.

Also:
Other in-game items: the Alliance often provides props such as maps, notes, books, and other informational items. If you find these in a module or on an NPC, they’re yours.

-Ali
 
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phedre

Squire
I'd take that as it's NPC only to create. If monster camp ever puts something out in a form that it can be stolen, lost, given or traded away (elixir, potion, gas, MI, potion, scroll), there is always a possibility that it can be used in a way that wasn't foreseen. If plot chooses to put anything out that PCs can't normally create, they're willing to roll with the punches.

It's why I said:
phedre said:
Well... players can't make Enslavements. If as a PC you somehow get one and plan to use it on another PC, you should probably go talk to your plot team about the particulars of using it.

Because it's a not a standard effect for a PC to have access to using, the plot team may tell you that it's LCO and only travels if you OK it with the plot team of the receiving chapter. (They may also put the tagged item out with an LCO stamp on it so it can't be used in another land.) It's a good thing for people to know how Greater Command effects stack, and this is a combination I've seen handled incorrectly before, out of a misunderstanding. (An NPC enslaved and amnesia'ed a PC, in that case and the PC mistakenly assumed they'd forgotten the orders and there was talk of cheating/cheesing before it was straightened out.)

This is getting a little off topic, I think the question was asked and answered, and this should be split off.
 
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