In Game Economy

Ash

Artisan
I've heard/read from a lot of chapters that part of the problem they face is that the coin costs so much oog and they have problems getting it back from the players and so continuously have to buy more stock. I for one know many different groups that have 300 or more gold stashed away. Heck some people have that by themselves.


The easiest fix I can see for this issue is the minting of a new coin size. Something along the lines of a platinum(or whatever) piece = 100 gold or some such.


That would allow for an influx of exchanged gold and silver. The chapters getting coin back, and the players getting more room in their treasury.

I know that when this game started it was a silver and copper economy, but it rarely (never that I've seen) works that way anymore. With tavern meals regularly costing around 3 silver in most chapters, there is no way continuing like this will be cost effective.

I do understand that the cost for minting a new coin-type is expensive, but I think it would be worth it for the chapters to not have to spend as much oog money on ig coin. (It would also allow the possibility for more money going out as treasure and less production, which wouldn't hurt either :))

The chapters could offer an open exchange gold to platinum during logistics periods perhaps.

Just don't get platinums (or whatevers) and silvers mixed up while divvying treasure.
 

phedre

Squire
Afaik, there was talk of platinum coins among the owners already. I haven't seen any, so I'm not sure how that turned out.

I bet if you go to logistics with a stash of silver and copper, your chapter staff would allow you to exchange your low-denomination coins for gold... CT was happy to let me do it with all the silver I brought in doing tavern.
 

Octaine

Artisan
A new coin type isnt the answer. The best way I have seen is to have your local chapter have an auction. Make sure to tell everyone about it weeks in advance, and make it saturday night so everyone is around.
 
SF did that last May, and they probably recovered over a hundred gold from players, if not more. The other thing to do is to have an in-game bank run by an NPC. People's gold counts are on paper, then, so they only need the physical gold if they're about to use it. I've never seen the latter, but it might be something to look into.
 

Talen

Adept
The problem, as it's always been is that there's very little that a character needs to spend from month to month.

That is, there's not much to put coins back into the hands of the game, and since coins are a big expense for a game, that lack of circulation hurts, especially since hyperinflation happens. There's no upkeep system.

You want to see coin circulate?

Make magic items and many kinds of rituals require fuel of an unstable form of (crystallized, liquid, radioactive glowy bits, whatever) magic, becoming dormant (gets no tags for the event) if not "fed". Said fuel has a lifespan of one event and requires precious metals and time to create.

Voila. Not only does Plot have a way to limit magic item use (by limiting the amount of "fuel" available if they wish), but coin flows without fail back into their clutches instead of being hoarded, letting it circulate. And the more powerful the player, the more they'll want to spend to keep their precious items working.

IIRC, wasn't the whole start of the "too much gold" thing a pre-Alliance-split player who dumped thousands of gold into the game economy while pulling so much silver and copper out as to force entire chapters into a gold-based economy instead, since it was all they had?
 

Wraith

Newbie
That's exactly the thing. The cash doesn't circulate because the majority of the players (in chapters with a higher APL than, say, SoMN) aren't interested in cash except as a way to get magic items, components, and ritual scrolls. The component-based economy is thriving, though.
 

Libras

Scholar
Since I've started playing, components have more than doubled in price. As a fail-safe, I think, Ohio sells LCO components for 3gold a pop to prevent the price from getting too outrageous. Also handy if you're making an item you'll only use locally and need/want a specific component now.
 

Ondreij

Scout
So, really big production people are OOG good for the game, eh? :roll:

I usually spend 19.2 gold per weekend in production. Thankfully, I am part of a large and successful team which is "just doing it's part to keep the game healthy". :lol:
 

Wraith

Newbie
Ondreij said:
So, really big production people are OOG good for the game, eh? :roll:

I usually spend 19.2 gold per weekend in production. Thankfully, I am part of a large and successful team which is "just doing it's part to keep the game healthy". :lol:
Indeed. People with big production move the money around. Of course, that does rely on them being able to find a buyer for their goods. :)
 

jpariury

Duke
Issuing a larger coin doesn't "solve the economy", it just means chapters have to buy a fourth bag of tokens.

The way to reduce the amount of coin outflow is to create more things for characters to spend coin on.
 
Like their maxout?

I would actually agree though, for the most part. I suppose the primary concern would be creating a section of the economy consisting of appealing amenities and curios that doesn't include too much that further widens the gap between long time players with aggressive play styles and newer players who are still getting a feel for the game or simply anyone who isn't in it looking to see their numbers get bigger.

I write a lot of borderline run-on sentences.
 

evi1r0n

Baron
Print bank notes from whatever kingdom you are from. Paper bank notes that count as a hundred gold a piece and are kept on record so people can't cheat. These bank notes would make life a bit easier and far cheaper. You can do them in any denomination you want to. I will personally pledge the money to print bank notes for SEA and OR. :D
 

Libras

Scholar
I could also see instead of sums of coin, having items that are inherently valuable (not production) be dropped.

EDIT: More often, for places where this type of stuff does drop. I haven't seen any in Ohio.
 

Unsure

Artisan
jpariury said:
Issuing a larger coin doesn't "solve the economy", it just means chapters have to buy a fourth bag of tokens.

The way to reduce the amount of coin outflow is to create more things for characters to spend coin on.
I agree with JP on this one. A PC rarely needs to buy anything. Even basic mondane things don't cost any IG money. For example people stay in cabins at events and I must assume that these cabins belong to someone IG (like an old tavern keeper that's a real miser and he'll charge the PCs to use the toilet and the shower if he could get away with it). The PCs stay in these cabins by someone who owns them but no IG rents are ever payed. Only an OOG payment for the event itself. I'm sure it has been done but why not charge IG for the cabin rental? Nothing too big just say 5 silvers per night or somethign like that.

Another one would be travel costs to get to and from the IG location the event takes place. I know that the mists help with that but even then it has to cost some IG coin to move about.

And lets not forget everyones favorite...taxes. I'm sure there could be some NPC noble asking for a road tax or property tax to fund his or her gambling habits with the Romani. Personally I like this one because you could have alot more immersion and roleplay involved with the game.

I'm sure if we thought about it some more we could come up with some more plot driven ways to circulate IG coin better and keep inflation down.

B~>
 

Wraith

Newbie
Unsure said:
jpariury said:
Issuing a larger coin doesn't "solve the economy", it just means chapters have to buy a fourth bag of tokens.

The way to reduce the amount of coin outflow is to create more things for characters to spend coin on.
I agree with JP on this one. A PC rarely needs to buy anything. Even basic mondane things don't cost any IG money. For example people stay in cabins at events and I must assume that these cabins belong to someone IG (like an old tavern keeper that's a real miser and he'll charge the PCs to use the toilet and the shower if he could get away with it). The PCs stay in these cabins by someone who owns them but no IG rents are ever payed. Only an OOG payment for the event itself. I'm sure it has been done but why not charge IG for the cabin rental? Nothing too big just say 5 silvers per night or somethign like that.

Another one would be travel costs to get to and from the IG location the event takes place. I know that the mists help with that but even then it has to cost some IG coin to move about.

And lets not forget everyones favorite...taxes. I'm sure there could be some NPC noble asking for a road tax or property tax to fund his or her gambling habits with the Romani. Personally I like this one because you could have alot more immersion and roleplay involved with the game.

I'm sure if we thought about it some more we could come up with some more plot driven ways to circulate IG coin better and keep inflation down.

B~>
The problem is that we end up with the same problem we get in real economies. Unavoidable payments that don't scale simply serve to widen the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots', because the people who have resources can consider 5 silver nothing, and for those scraping to try and afford a bit on that +1 damage aura scroll, that 5 silver may be half their profits for the weekend. I still think there is a simple solution that doesn't require any rules changes.

Stop Dropping Production Items

If no production comes out as loot, only coin, components, ritual scrolls, and things tagged for the merchant skill (gems, asset tags for goods, and jewelry) then we force money to circulate as people have to buy what they want. Combine this with a plot team making heavier use of asset tagged items such as houses, wagons, and the like in IBGA plot submissions, and suddenly coin has reason to flow freely.

It also provides a major incentive for all those players who have 'wasted' build on production skills to get some mileage out of them.
 

Ash

Artisan
Wraith said:
[The problem is that we end up with the same problem we get in real economies. Unavoidable payments that don't scale simply serve to widen the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots', because the people who have resources can consider 5 silver nothing, and for those scraping to try and afford a bit on that +1 damage aura scroll, that 5 silver may be half their profits for the weekend. I still think there is a simple solution that doesn't require any rules changes.

Stop Dropping Production Items

If no production comes out as loot, only coin, components, ritual scrolls, and things tagged for the merchant skill (gems, asset tags for goods, and jewelry) then we force money to circulate as people have to buy what they want. Combine this with a plot team making heavier use of asset tagged items such as houses, wagons, and the like in IBGA plot submissions, and suddenly coin has reason to flow freely.

It also provides a major incentive for all those players who have 'wasted' build on production skills to get some mileage out of them.

Ladies and gentleman, we have a Winner! Makes sense and easy to accomplish.
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
My only (for now) problem with that is that by refusing to drop a category of items as treasure and making those items needed or having those items be needed the chapter in question is forcing the players to play a game that they may not want to.

You may want to play a game which relies heavily upon you spending a bunch of build on a production skill, someone else may not.

And honestly, this is another one of those changes which only hurts the people who don't have piles upon piles upon piles (seriously, I've given up hope of even being able to trade it all in for coin) of production sitting around.

The people who already have the production don't need it and the people who don't have it are only hurt by not having it available as treasure and being forced to buy it.

Dan Nickname Beshers said:
Would you advocate the removal of gobbied production as well?
Terrible idea. Lose another way for people to spend their ridiculous amount of goblin stamps...
 

Wraith

Newbie
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
Would you advocate the removal of gobbied production as well?
Can't say as I would. 100 gobbies isn't enough production to throw things out of whack, and can make up for the fact that you may have a hard time finding someone selling exactly what you want.

tieran said:
My only (for now) problem with that is that by refusing to drop a category of items as treasure and making those items needed or having those items be needed the chapter in question is forcing the players to play a game that they may not want to.

You may want to play a game which relies heavily upon you spending a bunch of build on a production skill, someone else may not.

And honestly, this is another one of those changes which only hurts the people who don't have piles upon piles upon piles (seriously, I've given up hope of even being able to trade it all in for coin) of production sitting around.
Nothing says that those players who don't want to buy production skills can't do exactly what they do now : Buy from other players, or get plot to send out a merchant or two to haggle with. Either one is good for the game, as it either :

a. Gets a player who wants to play a production character/merchant more roleplay

or

b. Gets coin back to logistics while reducing the number of random tags that need to be printed each weekend.

We're not an MMO. The idea of NPC's dropping random loot as opposed to things they might want to use or coin is pretty silly to begin with. :D
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
Wraith said:
The idea of NPC's dropping random loot as opposed to things they might want to use or coin is pretty silly to begin with. :D
Oh, I agree.

But I know that most of the time after I have spent the day rampaging across the countryside or storming keeps I commonly have the oddest collection (one might even say random) of treasure in my pocket. Even some stuff I don't use.
 
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