Legerdemain

I

IvanDrake

Rogue
Okay, I am mulling over some roguish Plot submittals and donations, but since I play an anti-rogue, I need some help with an OOG question:

How often are there locks to pick during an event? In other words, how many times does a rogue get a chance to pick locks during an event on average?

Thanks for your help.

--- Eric Stehle / Ivan Drake
 
My personal experience in Seattle and Oregon would lead me to state "very few", at least out here. Specifically, my character with Legerdemain (one of three) gets to pick a lock perhaps one event of three that he goes to. Traps are more common, however; you're much more likely to utilize Legerdemain to disarm traps on a regular basis.

-Bryan Gregory
 
I am curious (since I haven't been out east yet and I'm planning to plunge into the game this summer) how often are real locks used in-game and picked? Because that did seem like on IG skill that might require a lot of OOG skill. More so than like swinging a sword. And I have a friend who works for a locksmith and so can pick almost anything and it seems like he would have an automatic huge leg up with legerdemain the way it works now.
 
"Real" locks are always used. You shouldn't ever come across a tag that says "this is locked" without having an actual lock there. Most locks at games are luggage locks. They're the cheapo, vending maching, keep your diary safe from your older siblings variety. The bulk of the skill needed to pick a lock is in possessing the skill Legerdemain. The rest is knowing a few simple tricks. For a lock to be legal, you must demonstrate to a marshal that it can be picked. Things like master locks, combination locks, and the like aren't allowed.
 
We've been trying in HQ to make the skill more needed... in fact the last event I PCd we went on a mod of trappy goodness - I thinkt here were no less than 10 boxes in there that had to be unlocked/disarmed. We have also sent out fishbowls where somebody needed something unlocked.

The locks themselves vary in difficulty from ones that don't even require tools (but do require the skill) to one that took Rich about an hour to pick.

Eric we'll gladly take some submissions on this!
 
I honestly can say.. I have in the past 8 years of nero play been on 3 mods that required me to "whip" out the old tools to pick a lock.

I have been on about 4 modules that actually needed me to disarm traps.....

When I was on plot in NJ .. I made it a point to make sure we had traps of some kind on the majority of the stuff I wrote and ran.

I would love to see more use of this skill.

Onitt H
 
Usually suitcase locks are adequate to provide a challenge.
I usually bring about 2 or 3 with me I can pick to use to lock things if necessary.

Onitt
 
<<< Eric we'll gladly take some submissions on this! >>>

Michelle, I am thinking about some ideas that I hope to flesh out.

--- Eric Stehle / Ivan Drake
 
I use my lock picks every game... those tags are hard to get out of the lil' vials.

That said, I pick a lock about once or twice every third event that I attend. Sometimes roguing someone else's cabin, sometimes opening a chest on a mod, sometimes to get into my own stuff. I encourage my plot team as much as I can with butterfly kisses and teddy bear hugs, and they try to go out of their way to make sure it is possible to use it, even if people don't opt to.
 
BUMP!

I rarely got to pick locks in my time at HQ, but I did usually get to disarm traps (module) a few times a season. Traps are much more fun than locks, but that's not to say locks aren't wanted. Luther ran the best trap module ever when he would come out as that ghost looking for two people who were then sent to a small cabin on a timed mission to retrieve tokens. That's actually where Xavier (Ray) taught Perwin lots of useful tips and tricks.

If HQ is looking for something fun, go ahead and throw a rogue module out to us during the May 2-3-4 event. I've been practicing picking locks again at work and I was glad to see that I'm still able to do it. I even taught my boss. :D
 
I think that part of the problem is that there have been a distinct lack of really cool locks to pick Those cheap, tiny brass luggage locks can be picked with a bent paper clip. They are so small they can't be used to lock anything bigger than a small box without looking totally ridiculous. And they don't look all that cool.

I have been looking for a source of larger, really cool iron locks that can be used to lock up a door equipped with a hasp, or a looped length of chain, that can be picked with moderate difficulty in three to five minutes by a practiced rougish hobling..

I have found two sources for some 18th Century black iron lock reproductions - they are kind of expensive - but I am thinking of buying one or two of these "skeleton key" locks to see if they can be picked with a dental tool pick set. I am looking at one and two tumbler warded locks, and three and four tumbler un-warded locks. These should be pickable by a moderately experienced person, and they should also look like they belong in the world of Fortannis.

If any Chapter is interested in trading some decent compensation with Goblin Stamps, please PM me with an idea of how much I might garner for delivering what I describe ... it might give me sufficient incentive to complete my search and testing.

-Seth
 
Actually, I think part of the issue is that 'activate shatter' is faster, less skill intensive, and all around easier than ledgermain for dealing with locks.
 
Wraith said:
Actually, I think part of the issue is that 'activate shatter' is faster, less skill intensive, and all around easier than ledgermain for dealing with locks.
Click to expand...

Yep, now that you can shatter a lock and not destroy the inside, there is no use for locks...but its more she shatter spell then the activate.

As for traps....going on a mod with some one like Perwin (Gee) it took forever, but if he found a trap we were thankful. Most of the time we would send one person in to "get" the traps and just heal them up.
 
Gilwing said:
Wraith said:
Actually, I think part of the issue is that 'activate shatter' is faster, less skill intensive, and all around easier than ledgermain for dealing with locks.
Click to expand...

Yep, now that you can shatter a lock and not destroy the inside, there is no use for locks...but its more she shatter spell then the activate.

As for traps....going on a mod with some one like Perwin (Gee) it took forever, but if he found a trap we were thankful. Most of the time we would send one person in to "get" the traps and just heal them up.
Click to expand...

That's because I was always thorough. The first thing you learn is to never take a step you don't know is safe to take. The second is don't cut a string until you know where it leads. So yeah, I took my time, but I rarely made mistakes. I imagine it's boring for those standing around, waiting to advance, but it is the defining moment of the event when we get to find and disarm traps. That's why I love the rogue modules where it's only a couple of us, but we take turns working on the traps.

As for the fancy locks, I'm on the fence about them. The rulebook (at least the last one I have from 2001 :p) says they need to be simple and easy to pick. The fact that you have the skill is supposed to be the "hard" part. Actually picking the lock is supposed to be fairly simple. If you're on a module and you get to a door with a fancy lock that takes 20-30+ minutes to figure out, that's no fun. But I'd actually like to see more complicated locks that are mobile. If it's something like a box that I can pick up and take along with me (assuming it's not trapped), then I'm all for it. I'd rather sit on my bed for an hour working on a lock that is a bit more complicated than waste everyone's time on a module.

And I had no idea shatter was changed. Man I gotta read a new rulebook.
 
In California, it is illegal to own a set of lock picks, so we don't use actual locks. We have to rely on another method for our locks and this changes from time to time as new, interesting ways to rep picking a lock comes up.

A suitcase lock is easy to pick but at the same time, you don't want to give people a real lock to pick. It is about being all you can't be. Yes, it takes some out of game skill to pick a lock, but it also takes some out of game skill to hit someone with a weapon. Not to mention you're effectiveness as a mage relies solely upon your throwing arm.

In some games out here, there were specific "rogue mods' where contests were held on trapping, lock picking, pocket picking and so on. But, like people have said, if you're in a mod and have to get from point A to point B and there's a locked door, the Shatter spell is quicker than any pick.
 
markusdark said:
In California, it is illegal to own a set of lock picks, so we don't use actual locks. We have to rely on another method for our locks and this changes from time to time as new, interesting ways to rep picking a lock comes up.
Click to expand...

The picks to which you refer are designed for warded pin locks (Master padlocks, convential door locks -both deadbolt and self-locking- ) ... the kinds of locks to which I refer are "skeleton key" locks with tumblers instead of pins. These kinds of locks can be picked using old, worn out dental tools, which can often be found at flea markets and ham fests for just a buck or two for several. These are not illegal to posess in ANY state. In fact, I bought a half dozen in San Diego when I was still living in CA.

As far as using SHATTER, instead ... imagine that you are standing at the entrance to a castle or keep that is infested with goblins, and you have to get inside to free the Baroness and rescue her. If you use a SHATTER, do you think you might not be heard? do you want to risk it? And, once inside, you might have to pick the shackles holding her to the wall of her prison cell ... and you want to shatter the lock and risk detection ... right? (sound like a cool premise for a rescue mod ... huh?).

Legerdemain is one of those cool IG skills that is made even cooler when it is also an OOG skill. It does not take much lock picking skill to pick a reasonably simple lock. I continue to look for such cool locks.
 
466. Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slidehammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car, aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, without being requested to do so by some person having the right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Any of the structures mentioned in Section 459 shall be deemed to be a building within the meaning of this section.

Although it is legal to possess them without felonious or malicious intent, that intent will be up to the arresting officer. We'd rather not have to deal with the "Why are a bunch of geeks dressed in costumes carrying lock picks?" questions by the hippy police.
 
markusdark said:
466. Every person having upon him .... questions by the hippy police.
Click to expand...

Now you're just trying to pick a fight.

Arresting officer: "What are these?"

PC Twit: "Old dental tools."

Arresting officer: "What are they used for?"

PC Twit: "Picking locks."

Arresting officer: "You are under arrest for being stupid."

Why not say that you use them for your hobby of building plastic models, and that you use them to remove tiny pieces of excess plastic, or other believable lie?
 
Actually, I'm not trying to pick a fight - I am giving you the reason that California games do not use actual lock picks or any devices that look like them in their games. Locksmiths have to be licensed in California so if you have a set of picks and no license, they get suspicious. Yes, dental tools can be used but they could still be mistaken as picks. Not to mention that you are talking about gamers here and (no offence to anyone but) there are quite a few that would answer "To pick locks" if asked.

I'm not going to argue this point. If the alliance chapter out here allows us to actually pick locks, I will be rather happy.
 
Gilwing said:
Wraith said:
Actually, I think part of the issue is that 'activate shatter' is faster, less skill intensive, and all around easier than ledgermain for dealing with locks.
Click to expand...

Yep, now that you can shatter a lock and not destroy the inside, there is no use for locks...but its more she shatter spell then the activate.

As for traps....going on a mod with some one like Perwin (Gee) it took forever, but if he found a trap we were thankful. Most of the time we would send one person in to "get" the traps and just heal them up.
Click to expand...

I usually use locks on boxes and say "IG the lock is part of the box, so if you shatter the lock, the box gets shattered as well."

What we need is a volunteer to every event bring at least one new trapped box that can be used and re-used...
 
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