Martial skills and damage types in the new system

KyleSchmelz

KyleSchmelz

Fighter
I'm curious how the martial per-day skills will work with the new [Number][Qualifier][Effect] scheme when they interact with things like Magic Blade, Elemental Blade, Weapon Coatings, etc, that grant the attack an additional Effect. Slays and Assassinates were changed to just call a larger number, so those won't be a problem. Examples: 100 Magic, 60 Poison Sleep

Terminate, Eviscerate, Disarm, Shatter, and Stun Limb are Effects in their own right, though. Can they be combined with other Effects? I know there's some language in the current rulebook about this:

ARB 1.3 said:
"Prepare to Die" calls such as Slay and Eviscerate are not considered "Effects" and should be called even when using another effect.
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But it doesn't seem completely consistent with the new rules set. What is the correct call for an Eviscerate with an Enfeeble Weapon Coating, or a Shatter with a Magic Blade? Can they be combined at all?
 
KyleSchmelz said:
I'm curious how the martial per-day skills will work with the new [Number][Qualifier][Effect] scheme when they interact with things like Magic Blade, Elemental Blade, Weapon Coatings, etc, that grant the attack an additional Effect. Slays and Assassinates were changed to just call a larger number, so those won't be a problem. Examples: 100 Magic, 60 Poison Sleep

Terminate, Eviscerate, Disarm, Shatter, and Stun Limb are Effects in their own right, though. Can they be combined with other Effects? I know there's some language in the current rulebook about this:



But it doesn't seem completely consistent with the new rules set. What is the correct call for an Eviscerate with an Enfeeble Weapon Coating, or a Shatter with a Magic Blade? Can they be combined at all?
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I don't see why you wouldn't use Eviscerate/Terminate Enfeeble Poison, since these effectively function as high-damage attacks, whereas Disarm, Shatter, and Stun Limb aren't.
 
I would say Shatter and Stun Limb are effects and as such you can call Magic or Poison to bypass immunities?
 
This is a good question. I think the honest answer is that we don't have a good answer yet. In theory you can no longer have a silver eviscerate or a flame stun limb, but that can present some problems with weapon immunities, so there isn't a great answer at this time. It's an area that's still a work in progress.
 
Draven said:
I don't see why you wouldn't use Eviscerate/Terminate Enfeeble Poison, since these effectively function as high-damage attacks, whereas Disarm, Shatter, and Stun Limb aren't.
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I can think of why. All calls are [Number (optional)] [Qualifier / Delivery (optional in specific circumstances)] [Effect]

Both Eviscerate and Enfeeble Poison are effects and attacks can only have one effect. Sure the effect for eviscerate is "Deal infinite damage," but it is still an effect.

-MS
 
mikestrauss said:
I can think of why. All calls are [Number (optional)] [Qualifier / Delivery (optional in specific circumstances)] [Effect]

Both Eviscerate and Enfeeble Poison are effects and attacks can only have one effect. Sure the effect for eviscerate is "Deal infinite damage," but it is still an effect.

-MS
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There's no reason we can't treat "Eviscerate" as an Infinite Slay, from a mechanical perspective.
 
Draven said:
There's no reason we can't treat "Eviscerate" as an Infinite Slay, from a mechanical perspective.
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Whether there are reasons or not, we don't. We treat Eviscerate as an effect, just like we treat basically every other one-shot ability in the game.

You do raise an interesting question about Slay. Heck, a few interesting questions.

With this new system, do we still say the word "Slay" as part of the verbal for a Slay?
If so, what information does that add that makes it necessary to include?
Additionally, where does the word "Slay" fit into Number-Qualifier-Effect?
If it doesn't fit into that paradigm, is it an exception that requires an additional word to be added?

-MS
 
No, there is no "Slay" or "Assassinate" verbal anymore. It's simply a damage call. I suppose in theory we could have Terminate/Eviscerate be expressed as a damage value in the verbal, such as "Infinite Silver!"
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
No, there is no "Slay" or "Assassinate" verbal anymore. It's simply a damage call. I suppose in theory we could have Terminate/Eviscerate be expressed as a damage value in the verbal, such as "Infinite Silver!"
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I'd be okay with this. Now to contact an owner....
 
I... Rather like that.
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
No, there is no "Slay" or "Assassinate" verbal anymore. It's simply a damage call. I suppose in theory we could have Terminate/Eviscerate be expressed as a damage value in the verbal, such as "Infinite Silver!"
Click to expand...

I checked the 0.8 rules carefully before posting. It doesn't mention this change in call. It probably should for the sake of making playtesting easier.

As to the Terminate / Eviscerate comment, while it pretty much off topic at this point, I personally would prefer a concrete number to infinite. It removes any possible confusion (Evade! What is half of infinity?) and takes away the need for some monsters to have effects like "Takes X damage from Eviscerate." Obviously the number should be high enough to surpass any potential Slay (500 is probably safe).

That was fun... but off topic. Time to find an owner.

-MS
 
Draven said:
INFINITE POISON!

I WANT TO SAY THIS!

Imagery: So much poison you EXPLODE.
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Poison isn't an effect. You would have to say "Infinite Poison Normal" or maybe even "Infinite Poison Lightning." Heck, I think it is even possible to "Infinite Poison Healing" which depending on how rules clarifications turn out would either be really cool or completely useless.

-MS
 
mikestrauss said:
I checked the 0.8 rules carefully before posting. It doesn't mention this change in call. It probably should for the sake of making playtesting easier.

As to the Terminate / Eviscerate comment, while it pretty much off topic at this point, I personally would prefer a concrete number to infinite. It removes any possible confusion (Evade! What is half of infinity?) and takes away the need for some monsters to have effects like "Takes X damage from Eviscerate." Obviously the number should be high enough to surpass any potential Slay (500 is probably safe).

That was fun... but off topic. Time to find an owner.

-MS
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The “Skill” qualifier has been completely removed – you no longer need to say “Prepare to Die” before using a Slay, Eviscerate, or any other skill which previously required it. Slays and Assassinates are changed to simply be swings with a bigger damage amount, while other abilities which were previously Prepare to Die are simply swings with a different effect.

The Qualifier (Slay, Assassinate) is removed. you swing the larger amount.
 
mikestrauss said:
Poison isn't an effect. You would have to say "Infinite Poison Normal" or maybe even "Infinite Poison Lightning." Heck, I think it is even possible to "Infinite Poison Healing" which depending on how rules clarifications turn out would either be really cool or completely useless.

-MS
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Technically, as a Qualifier (like spell) it would probably have to come before the effect.

Like....

Poison Infinite! But that sounds less cool. :(
 
Draven said:
Technically, as a Qualifier (like spell) it would probably have to come before the effect.

Like....

Poison Infinite! But that sounds less cool. :(
Click to expand...

Wait. You are saying "Infinite" is an effect, not a number? That seriously defies my expectations.

-MS
 
I....actually, I suppose since the call is 10 Spell Healing and not Spell 10 Healing, I suppose I'm in error.
 
mikestrauss said:
Poison isn't an effect. You would have to say "Infinite Poison Normal" or maybe even "Infinite Poison Lightning." Heck, I think it is even possible to "Infinite Poison Healing" which depending on how rules clarifications turn out would either be really cool or completely useless.
Click to expand...

# Qualifier Effect is the pattern, so you've got it right (in this hypothetical rules change case).
 
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