MWEs and Sleep

[jpariury]

Any MWE who does not object to someone casting a spell that take away one's free will is not playing their race properly.

If this is true then every MWE on the east cost that i've heard stories of using sleep gasses are not playing there race correctly.

Sleep is not a "controlling magic" or "take away one's free will", or so such MWEs would argue, I suspect. Being sleepy is being sleepy. One does not "will themselves to be sleepy".

Also, as was noted, it's debatably a-ok as a MWE (within the scope of playing your race correctly) to take away the will of "non-people".

 

[Togashin]

How is a sleep not controlling?

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Actually if you look back in the rules section MikeV specifically said that MWE's would have a lot less of an "issue" with Sleep than other commands. You make them sleepy, sure you could use it badly but it is certainly not inherently bad.

 

[jpariury]

How is a sleep not controlling?

In every way that Waylay is not controlling. It's a Command, but it's not controlling.

I'd imagine MWEs should have greater issue with Subjugate than Sleep, tbh.

 

[Mobius]

it's all about the target not the action. if you kill a bug, it's pest-control not murder; if you kill a human, it's murder not pest-control. Mystics don't like controlling "people", so long as you're not controlling "people" it's all good. it's a definition thing, define "people" in the right way and Mystics can control at whim. using a "Sleep"' effect on a person is bad; using a "Sleep" effect on a creature is fine

 

[Ondreij]

Ondreij does not make sleep potions or scrolls, and does not memorize any command spells EXCEPT awaken. But, as MWEs go, he's more of a purist that most of his people.

While SLEEP may have its uses which would not offend his MWE heritage and beliefs, he has seen too many non-MWEs misuse his production, so he doesn't make it so it won't end up in the hands of those who would pervert his skillsby misusing it.

Ondreij also struggles with the use of command effects on the so called "monster" races ... even goblinoids. But that is subject to change.

 

[jomcf11]

How is a sleep not controlling?

sleeping pills vs. mind control pills.

 

[jpariury]

I'd also suggest that if a MWE is anti-sleep by virtue of it being a Command, they should be against Awaken for the same reason.

 

[markusdark]

Oooh, neat!

 

[Mobius]

I'd also suggest that if a MWE is anti-sleep by virtue of it being a Command, they should be against Awaken for the same reason.

the Addendum radically changed the Mystic Disadvantage

BA (Before Addenda), you would be right: both Command Effects should have been equally as horrendous to a Mystic for their bigotry toward "mind-control effects", hence any Command Effect, was all encompassing (similar to a Dryad's bigotry toward Chaos)

AA (After Addenda), you are wrong: the new interpretation has nothing to do with the action and everything to do with the target; a Mystic can use "mind-control effects" on anything she pleases so long she deems them subhuman (goblins, animals, Slavers, Tax Attorneys, etc), she'll only get huffy when the target is "human"; as well, she doesn't mind if "mind-control effects" are used on a willing subject, hence the acceptance of "Sleep" spells for insomniacs and "Awaken" spells on those being controlled, etc

it's a whole new ball game now. whenever a "mind-controlling effect" is used, each individual Mystic must ask:

• 1. ¿Is the target "Subhuman" (ie monstrous, either mentally or culturally)? If YES, said effect is acceptable, if NO goto 2.
• 2. ¿Did the target "request" the effect (eg. "Love" for a mating ritual) or would "request" the effect ("Awaken" for a controlled individual)? If YES, said effect is acceptable. If NO goto 3.
• 3. Get "pissy".

definitions of "Subhuman", "request", and "pissy" all depend on individual Mystics and their world-view

 

[markusdark]

Remember also that it isn't so much how the individual MWE sees things but how other MWE's see what the individual MWE is doing. If you want to walk the line on what constitutes the proper use of a certain command spell, be ready for other MWE's to give you gruff if you overstep it with your self justification.

 

[Ondreij]

I'd also suggest that if a MWE is anti-sleep by virtue of it being a Command, they should be against Awaken for the same reason.

I have been playing a MWE for years ... and struggled with this COMMAND dichotomy plenty before and since the recent rules and interpretations came out. Am I playing against the rules if my primary chucks an AWAKEN at an adventurer who was just CHARMED by the enemy in battle? If not, then let me role play my character my way and I will let you role play your character your way.

 

[Mobius]

Remember also that it isn't so much how the individual MWE sees things but how other MWE's see what the individual MWE is doing. If you want to walk the line on what constitutes the proper use of a certain command spell, be ready for other MWE's to give you gruff if you overstep it with your self justification.

there is no "proper use of a command spell" in Mystic culture. the clarification makes it pretty clear that it's all dependent on individual interpretation. not to mention, it would be the height of hypocrisy for one Freedom-loving Mystic to turn to another Freedom-loving Mystic and try to stop or impinge on their freedom by curtailing their actions. it's a Catch-22: you' can't be a Freedom-lover and attack the way another person is using their Freedom for if you do you no longer love Freedom and if you don't you're allowing them to hurt Freedom. unless, of course, Mystics start deciding other Mystics are subhuman ("'Judean's People Front', feh! Splitters!")

 

[markusdark]

I would say it depends on the culture. I don't know about my own local MWE's, or even the national packet for them (t +27 days and still waiting on my plot) but I could imagine that the local MWE's, as a whole and racial ideal, could decide amongst themselves if an Awaken spell is against their beliefs or if hitting anyone attacking you with a Dominate to just tell him to surrender in order to save his life is OK.

 

[jpariury]

Am I playing against the rules if my primary chucks an AWAKEN at an adventurer who was just CHARMED by the enemy in battle?

You're not even playing against the rules if your primary throws a Dominate at someone who was Dominated first, particularly if you either think the person wasn't a "person" or decided that was the only way you had available for you to restore their will.

let me role play my character my way

I don't believe I suggested anything about how players have to play it. I am, however, suggesting that someone who plays a character who views Sleep as Bad® by virtue of it being a Command group effect should be aware of the hypocrisy of thinking Awaken is a Good Thing™. I have no objections to someone playing a hypocrite (accidental or intentional), its just something I think the player should keep in mind.

 

[Shandar]

And of course this scenario (along with all other cultural/personal racial issues) is further complicated when you throw RT into the mix!

 

[Ondreij]

Am I playing against the rules if my primary chucks an AWAKEN at an adventurer who was just CHARMED by the enemy in battle?

You're not even playing against the rules if your primary throws a Dominate at someone who was Dominated first, particularly if you either think the person wasn't a "person" or decided that was the only way you had available for you to restore their will.

let me role play my character my way

I don't believe I suggested anything about how players have to play it. I am, however, suggesting that someone who plays a character who views Sleep as Bad® by virtue of it being a Command group effect should be aware of the hypocrisy of thinking Awaken is a Good Thing™. I have no objections to someone playing a hypocrite (accidental or intentional), its just something I think the player should keep in mind.

It's not because SLEEP is in the command group -- for my character it is because SLEEP is used by others to take away the choice of others and that goes against Ondreij's freedom worshipping nature -- yeah, Ondreij has religious feelings and acts on the accordingly. Yes, we have religion in Alliance LARP - at least some of us role play from our characters "religious beliefs, feelsing, and convictions." I can explain it by saying "because that's the kind of Ansconi which I am."

I choose to roleplay my Ansconi (what you call Mystic Wood Elf) as never memorizing SLEEP or making sleep items, or other "command" effects except AWAKE because it is so darn useful to remove the control on others who so obviously have had their wills torn away from them. And even though AWAKEN can be used to involuntary waken somebody who chose to be put to sleep, the harm of not being able to AWAKEN somebody so far outweighs the possibility that there is someone who happens to have asked to be put to sleep that someone else might maliciously awaken that he does not limit his actions because of this.

EC JP once said that Ondreij is a complicated character -- and he is. That's one of the reasons I have had such fun playing him for around 7 years.

 

[Gilwing]

Am I playing against the rules if my primary chucks an AWAKEN at an adventurer who was just CHARMED by the enemy in battle?

You're not even playing against the rules if your primary throws a Dominate at someone who was Dominated first, particularly if you either think the person wasn't a "person" or decided that was the only way you had available for you to restore their will.

let me role play my character my way

I don't believe I suggested anything about how players have to play it. I am, however, suggesting that someone who plays a character who views Sleep as Bad® by virtue of it being a Command group effect should be aware of the hypocrisy of thinking Awaken is a Good Thing™. I have no objections to someone playing a hypocrite (accidental or intentional), its just something I think the player should keep in mind.

It's not because SLEEP is in the command group -- for my character it is because SLEEP is used by others to take away the choice of others and that goes against Ondreij's freedom worshipping nature -- yeah, Ondreij has religious feelings and acts on the accordingly. Yes, we have religion in Alliance LARP - at least some of us role play from our characters "religious beliefs, feelsing, and convictions." I can explain it by saying "because that's the kind of Ansconi which I am."

So the same would apply for Prison and web? Because by choice my character would not want that on them.

 

[Ondreij]

So the same would apply for Prison and web? Because by choice my character would not want that on them.

No - because PRISON and WEB are physical effects and do not effect the MIND and the WILL, but affect the BODY. It's subtle, but so are MWEs. And, besides that, it's how I choose to play the role.

 

[Wraith]

So the same would apply for Prison and web? Because by choice my character would not want that on them.

No - because PRISON and WEB are physical effects and do not effect the MIND and the WILL, but affect the BODY. It's subtle, but so are MWEs. And, besides that, it's how I choose to play the role.

Locking someone in a cage is a purely physical effect as well, yet you'd have one hell of a time talking any Mystic into putting up with it.