Necromancy and LCO legality

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Draven, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Draven

    Draven Count Seattle Staff Marshal

    Per the ARB, necromancy is to be illegal in all chapters, absolutely. However, a chapter owner has stated that this is only per the ARB, and that the bylaws do not enforce this.

    If so, it implies that necromancy illegality is purely an opt-in, as chapters would apparently have the right to legalize it via LCO rules.

    Is this correct?
  2. phil90

    phil90 Artisan Marshal

    As stated in the other thread. It was my understanding that necromancy would be illegal everywhere. The rule book says:
    "The existence of laws against necromancy are an unalterable rule of the game. "
  3. tieran

    tieran Duke Gettysburg Staff Marshal

    The old NJ Chapter ran a with a separation between necromancy (ritual transformation and creation and the ole 7th level life spells) and chaosmancy (all the necro effects except the one spell).

    It was still all illegal, but the law was very... lenient and had a number of ways to get out of, reduce, or flat-out be exempt from punishment, depending on who you were and who you were doing things to.

    If I remember correctly, the punishment for actual necromancy was death (or a fine, if you were important), while the punishment for chaosmancy was a fine, but it was on the order of 5 gold to start.

    From what I remember of the drama, it wasn’t technically against the by-laws, but it was heavily frowned upon as this was many years ago and could have been changed since.

    I would reach out to your owner and see if they can answer or tag someone who might be in the know to drop some knowledge on us.
  4. phil90

    phil90 Artisan Marshal

    Thank you for providing this example Tieran

    Once again necromancy was legal. All the spells are in the necromancy family. There are no spells that are necromancy but not necromancy. If we have chapters that allow necromancy and it remains that way. It should be clear and known to every Alliance Chapter. There could be problems if someone visits a chapter where necromancy is allowed and I am pretty sure many PCs would simply avoid a place where necromancy is legal.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. Draven

    Draven Count Seattle Staff Marshal

    I’d like to point out that I personally dislike the forced requirement for necromancy to be illegal, because I think it makes necromantic villains inherently less interesting, and skill balancing unnecessarily more challenging. But I absolutely hate inconsistency, so if it’s a rule that’s expected to be Alliance-wide, an exception is annoying.
  6. Gandian Ravenscroft

    Gandian Ravenscroft Knight Chicago Staff Marshal

    There is currently a chapter where there are players able to become Sanctioned Necromancers, allowing them to cast necromancy freely and without any repercussions. The process for becoming a Sanctioned Necromancer is effectively asking the staff "Hey, can I be a Sanctioned Necromancer?" and all the in-game NPCs support it, so there's no real barrier to entry at all.

    Being a Sanctioned Necromancer means that the chapter staff specifically gives necro plot/benefits/protection from the in-game government. All necromantic items in the chapter are to be handed over to the someone that is a Sanctioned Necromancer so that nobody can use the necro items but them. Other characters that try to stop Sanctioned Necromancers from casting necro are threatened with punishment by the in-game government, leading the problem to be something that's completely unassailable without suffering consequences for doing what the ARB tells you is what players should be doing.

    Simply put, it's real dumb.
  7. Darkcrescent

    Darkcrescent Knight Chicago Staff Marshal

    Should necromancy be a legal wide thing in Alliance, that I'm fine with. However, to do so would mean Dryads/High Ogres/Oathsworn would need some rewrites to their core lore; High Ogres especially....otherwise any PC High Ogre would be killing anyone they see doing this. There would be a lot of other things need changing, so it's not impossible.

    The issue is when nothing can be done to existing necromancers without retaliation by plot. In one example, a Dryad(myself) and another High Ogre player had to weigh resurrecting a PC necromancer, or having plot "sack the town". In the interest of not getting the town potentially TPK'd, the Rez didn't happen. I don't know if this is something plot would of done, but it was heavily implied. (The fact the resurrection was going to happen, but plot OOG told the NPC/PC Tavern Keeper who then implied this would be the case should we go through with it)

    I don't mean to speak for others, but I can say it was this very topic(and a few others) that lead at least 6 people to quit the chapter in question after 7+ years of playing.
  8. phil90

    phil90 Artisan Marshal

    I think we can only have one way or the other. If necromancy was in fact legal, it would have to be powered down a bit. As Ryan pointed out some races would have to be modified to accommodate such change.
  9. Alkalin3

    Alkalin3 Administrator Chief Technology Officer South Michigan Staff Marshal

    It's really balanced against the fact that it's illegal or at least harming to the world.. A lot of the effects are intentionally strong for their level.

    At South Michigan, just casting Necromancy has an effect on the world. Other chapters have made that clear they do the same kind of thing.
    A.mungo, Durnic and SkollWolfrun like this.
  10. phil90

    phil90 Artisan Marshal

    I agree making illegal does somewhat balance it. When it is not illegal what does balance it?

    The Calgary chapter has the same thing. We have a field in-game where a lot of necromancy was used. The land is destroyed and nothing can grow there.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  11. Feldor

    Feldor Artisan

    Given that the rules say necromancy is illegal _IN_GAME_, does staff do anything to enforce that? Are NPCs asked to report when they are hit by necromancy, and are those reports investigated?
    I think the only time I've personally seen necromancy punished it was clearly more of an in-game political action. If necromancy being illegal is only enforced for political reasons, its not really illegal.

    And there is nothing stopping a chapter from saying. "Necromancy is illegal. The fine for each use of necromancy is 1 arrow, payable to the local government representative. Anyone failing to pay the fine is subject to death." At that point, necromancy is illegal, possibly subject to death, and functionally no more restrictive to use than archery.

    Honestly, I think balancing the rules around assuming that every chapter everywhere actively and sufficiently enforces necromancy being illegal seems ill advised. We already have one example above of it being "illegal without a license".
  12. Bigens73

    Bigens73 Artisan

    It is tough as a player in said chapter. Plot has laid out the reasoning that it is okay and I understand but do not agree with the use of it. They really have conflicted the player base and caused us to struggle with our morals of it.
  13. Darkcrescent

    Darkcrescent Knight Chicago Staff Marshal

    Maybe this is just a thing from back in the day and not that important other than an RP thing. Could just be time for a change.

    In said chapter, the PCs are literally on 2 sides:

    Necromancy tolerent PCs with plot support vs. Necromancy is bad PCs.

    At the core, the best way to describe it is the non-necromancy supporters are punished for following our racial stance and in a matter of perspective, made to feel like being the “good guys” or “doing the right thing” is wrong. It’s been really strange to be punished for being the “good guys” for an entire year. Just a bad atmosphere that’s hard to describe unless you attend.

    For you PNW people, I’m sure Brent/Kevar could echo my statement to some degree.
  14. Tantarus

    Tantarus Squire

    Sounds like the anti Necro PCs need to get their vigilante justice on. You can all be Batman...
    Ruki, Durnic and Bigens73 like this.
  15. Bigens73

    Bigens73 Artisan

    I want to make it clear in case i travel the mists I do not participate in or condone the use of necromancy I am staying in said lands because I cannot afford the time off from work to travel the mists full time. So I am trying to make the best out of a bad and uncomfortable situation.
  16. Durnic

    Durnic Squire Owner Oregon Staff Marshal

    PNW trip to Minn for some of our own justice? :p

    A.mungo, Draven, Feldor and 2 others like this.
  17. Lurin

    Lurin Duke

    Casa De Jehyu, or Crescent, or Durl, or I guess Dave will be glad to offer rides/host we got a spare room and a big old sectional couch ^.^
  18. Darkcrescent

    Darkcrescent Knight Chicago Staff Marshal

    Same if needed. Spare room with private bathroom. I know I owe some favors to some PNW folks from my 2, soon to be 3rd visit.
  19. Muir

    Muir Fighter

    Satisfying as that could be, I never want to see it. One of the worst parts about other national LARPS is having entire games get rolled by out of towners.

    Much better to just vote with one's wallet. This isn't a highly profitable business, and chapters will either change what is making players leave or go under in short order. Half a dozen players is ~400 bucks an event that isn't going into the chapter's pocket.
  20. Durnic

    Durnic Squire Owner Oregon Staff Marshal

    Just for the record: I was absolutely 100% kidding.
    Inaryn likes this.

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