Ogre Necromancer

Dom

Scout
Gettysburg Staff
Is there any actual rule against this? I know ogres feel unbearable pain around necro but I have read other race packets where the race is known to embrace pain. Other than the obvious every other ogre would destroy any person who plays an ogre necromancer and the unwritten rule of ogres and how "there can only be one" (at least on the east coast) yadda yadda yadda.

Can an ogre be a nercromancer?
 

OrcFighterFTW

Spellsword
Edit: Duke Frost is correct. See below.
 
I disagree. You really can't play a high ogre necromancer.

From the rulebook:

"We expect you to play your character’s race properly. High orcs should be slow witted, barbarians should act uncouth, and dark elves should shun the sunlight whenever possible.

You must abide by your racial characteristics. You cannot write your history to be the “outsider” of your race and be the one barbarian who is a elocution professor, the one gypsy who is quiet and shy, or the one dark elf who likes to go sunbathing."

"Necromancy and undead are more than just taboo to a high ogre. These things just feel wrong and the presence of such abominations makes the high ogre itch and squirm in discomfort. This sort of thing has no place corrupting the lands.

Consequently, high ogres hate any type of undead or necromancy and will do everything in their power to destroy such beings or those who would use necromancy. This means that a high ogre may do some pretty suicidal things in order to attack that undead creature or necromancer."
 

KyleSchmelz

Fighter
Judging by that, it sounds to me like it's possible for a high ogre necromancer to exist, but a PC can't play one.
 

Gandian Ravenscroft

Knight
Chicago Staff
Marshal
KyleSchmelz said:
Judging by that, it sounds to me like it's possible for a high ogre necromancer to exist, but a PC can't play one.
Seconded. To me, High Ogre necromancers are reserved strictly for Plot's use, and only then in rare/cool circumstances.
 

Mike Ventrella

Duke
Owner
Moderator
HQ Staff
If we allowed exceptions for PCs for every race, then the restrictions become meaningless, and every race starts to look like every other one. It is indeed these restrictions that help make our world more varied and interesting and provides for more roleplaying, I believe. (Plus the restrictions are also taken into consideration when deciding racial benefits and negatives).
 

Air Raksa

Scholar
I think that an Ogre can be a necromancer In-Game, not as a character concept. Many adventurers have been forced to make terrible choices. I think Ogre could activate a desecrate item to save his friends, family or the world or whatever. That character should feel worse about it than any one else. Also if other Ogres found out about it they would flip. Likewise an Ogre can forced to cast necromancy by a variety of In Game means. Some people might think that "my character would automatically commit suicide" if that happened, but I don't think that has ever been required for any race.

-Brian
 

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
You can absolutely be forced to cast necro as an Ogre via a variety of means, but a high ogre activating a Necro Item willingly would prompt me to have a discussion with the PC in question. I'm not saying I'd card them for not playing their race properly, but I would want to understand what led them to it. If I as a plot member created a situation where PCs had to be bad guys or lose (and I'm talking about a win condition for an encounter, not a statting issue) then I'M the one breaking the rules.
 

jpariury

Duke
Toddo said:
If I as a plot member created a situation where PCs had to be bad guys or lose (and I'm talking about a win condition for an encounter, not a statting issue) then I'M the one breaking the rules.
I'll disagree. The personal conflict of "take a loss and maintain your morals" vs "take the win and turn your back on your morals" is ripe ground for character development, in all manner of narration. I don't believe that every situation should require a solution that fits the character template.
 

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
jpariury said:
Toddo said:
If I as a plot member created a situation where PCs had to be bad guys or lose (and I'm talking about a win condition for an encounter, not a statting issue) then I'M the one breaking the rules.
I'll disagree. The personal conflict of "take a loss and maintain your morals" vs "take the win and turn your back on your morals" is ripe ground for character development, in all manner of narration. I don't believe that every situation should require a solution that fits the character template.
Sorry, I was oversimplifying. If I write a plotline that comes down to "Throw a Cause Mort or you can not in any way succeed" then I am breaking the rules (no rulebook at work so I can't pull the appropriate quote from the how to write plot section). If I set up a scenario where a group of PCs get trapped by undead and their practical options are run or die and the Ogre throws a Control Undead to turn the tide I'd want to have a conversation with the player because they are in violation of their race packet and I would want to hear their justifications IG and OOG before deciding to take action or not. Character development opportunities do not allow you to ignore racial restrictions, I don't see the previously quoted rules above as leaving a lot of wiggle room.
 

jpariury

Duke
Toddo said:
If I write a plotline that comes down to "Throw a Cause Mort or you can not in any way succeed" then I am breaking the rules (no rulebook at work so I can't pull the appropriate quote from the how to write plot section).
I suspect you're pulling from "Writing Adventures", near the back of the book. (Probably page 153: Some modules have been written in such a way that they require characters to do things that aren’t very nice in order to complete the module. This punishes players who are trying to role-play “good” characters.) A useful quote here would come from the previous page: Here then are some pieces of advice for writing these modules (although in general the same advice goes for encounters). These are not rules, but guidelines. (Pg 152, underlining mine)

If I set up a scenario where a group of PCs get trapped by undead and their practical options are run or die and the Ogre throws a Control Undead to turn the tide I'd want to have a conversation with the player because they are in violation of their race packet and I would want to hear their justifications IG and OOG before deciding to take action or not. Character development opportunities do not allow you to ignore racial restrictions, I don't see the previously quoted rules above as leaving a lot of wiggle room.
I disagree. If the player of a high ogre did such a thing, I would point out to the player that they have gone outside their racial roleplay requirements and remind them that they're likely to encounter issues in the long run (depending on what happens). Much like a MWE who decides to become a slaver is likely to be pursued by his races elders and face reprisals, I think our necro-casting High Ogre should be given the same situation. If the player is all "enh, screw that", then we're talking about an OOG issue. If we're talking about "my character/I couldn't come up with another to handle it!", then we're talking about a chance for a fall from grace and redemption of spirit kind of story. That is an awesome story that can be told, if the players are into it, I don't believe that the racial roleplay restriction rules are intended to explicitly disallow that.

There's a difference between playing a high ogre necromancer and playing a high ogre who succumbs to temptation. The former shouldn't be allowed. The latter utterly should be. Someone who finds themselves repeatedly in the latter situation should have that resolved in-game (by getting race changed or killed by their elders, most likely).
 

Tempest

Artisan
A bit of a sticking point, there is a difference in mindset between Necromancy and casting Chaos.

There is Creating (and all other dealings with) Undead.
And there is Chaos "Battle Damage". (Cause wounds, Cause Morts and such.)

They are different lines to cross in the mindset of certain players/Ogres.
 

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
Both "types" are still necro according to the rules.
Breaking them into battle magic and undead creating types would be an IG legal distinction.
Ogres would have the same icky feelings when ANY necro is cast. It's a physical reaction, not a mindset.
 

jpariury

Duke
The prohibition is against Necromancy. Necromancy is a defined group, both out of game (the rules) and in-game (Cloaks, Resists, Banes, Immunity). If a player is claiming not to be a necromancer because they just cast "battle damage" as justification for meeting the out-of-game roleplay requirements, I'd say they're cheating.
 

Tempest

Artisan
My Ogre (and his mind set) is from a different rulebook.

It isn't an IG 'legal' distinction. It is the way certain races and certain chapters had their races set up. Past tense.

Getting the cheating card out awfully quick JP? :yummy:
 

Warlok

Adept
Charlottesville Staff
New Rulebook supersedes previous editions. For example, in the last big update, characters were given a free Spirit Forge in order to conform to the new rules. The limitation placed on High Ogres is a balance factor to keep them in line with the other Races. If you're not playing your Race properly, you can be Race Changed in order to conform to the Rules As Written.

-Luke
 

Robb G

Baron
haha.. good idea.

"I've had this character for 12 years and have had X attitude since day 1."

"we don't care, the new rules book supersedes all. change your character concept and retcon his history to fall in line or we'll race change you"

"f you guys." ((changes chapters, or larps))



:funny:
 

Mike Ventrella

Duke
Owner
Moderator
HQ Staff
Under the old rules, ogres feared necromancy.

We realized that was no fun to play and changed it so that they hated necromancy.

I don't see how under either circumstance you could create an ogre who was a necromancer...
 
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