[.11] Racial Evade Cost

Tantarus

Squire
Racial Evade seems slightly over costed to me. Why is it more expensive then resist spell? At best it should be even with it. Just curious the thinking behind this.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
It disrupts weapon combos pretty handily, can avoid poison coatings, and makes it hard for a Rogue to engage you.

All other Resists are much easier to avoid. “Pointy Ears means I don’t throw Command at you.”

In combination with a shield, it can make you phenomenally tanky in .11.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Is it? That might be a perception from 1.3, where melee KOs were relatively rare. Sure, you could have big Slays/Eviscerates, but in this new world of Rogues/Fighters having tons of per-day KOs, I think Evade is going to be -incredibly- valuable.

6 XP valuable? I mean, I know at least one Hobling who’s willing to buy it. ;)
 

Tantarus

Squire
It is certainly good, I am not debating that. I just think it should be 5 build on par with resist spell. Also it is really bad for scouts and rogues.

I do think it would be interesting to see what racials get used by scavengers in the playtest. Should be enlightening.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Scouts and Rogues shouldn’t buy it anyways; it gives a class skill without class XP. You’d have to lower it to, like, 3 to give them value for it.

R Evade is good for mages and fighters.
 

Durnic

Squire
Owner
Oregon Staff
Marshal
The new Evade is basically a "Resist Weapon". When thought of that way, I think it brings it very much in-line with other Resist skills, only much, much, much less specific than, say, Resist Command or Resist Binding.
 
At risk of distracting from the discussion, in our chapter we have two Wilderkyn who have expressed what their Racial skills are going to be; one has chosen Resist Necromancy and Resist Curse as a Rogue/Scout, the other Resist Spell and I believe Racial Evade as a Fighter. I see the logic behind both sets, and they've each built those skills into their defenaive loadouts, and the builds I've seen have looked quite solid and balanced for the kind of combat their character is set up to do.

My ridiculous Wilderkyn idea would have no Racial Skills in the build at all, so it would be entirely irrelevant which two I chose, but they would very likely be Resist Curse and Resist Binding for thematic reasons.

I think, overall, the Racial Skills are priced adequately for their uses, and which two a Wilderkyn chooses are likely going to be based around a combination of which effects the player deems most likely to get them killed and the concept they have for the character they want to play. So long as playtest mods put a good mix of everything against the PCs, I don't think there's going to end up being any "best" option for all players, and I very much look forward to hearing about the different Racials being good at different times. :)
 

Tantarus

Squire
So you think evade is worth more then resist spell? I guess to me it seems like they should be even in cost as they are about that in value.
 
In a general sense, yes; you (general you) tend to see a lot more weapon swings over the course of a day than spells, and especially with things like Eviscerate changing to a numbered call and the various Strike and Blow skills being introduced, I think for some characters being able to call an Evade without having to put XP into skills that run counter to their concept is worth the cost.

In the playtests I've been to, Racial Dodge/Evade has been about equally as useful as Resist Spell overall for characters who don't get access to those skills via their builds, but the Dodges/Evades were used more frequently, and Dodge was used against things like Terminates (now Doom Blow) and Slays with about as much frequency as I expected (it was about a 2:1 ratio of Dodge vs Spells/other packets to Weapons). It's true that Evade defends against less than Dodge, but Resist Spell won't save you from a Sleep Coating that gets through your armor.

I also don't see the same call to change the cost of Resist Poison (which can also defend against an entire Qualifier) to be on par with Resist Spell, and I think part of that is because Poison tends to come out less frequently than Spells, but the frequency of various Qualifiers making it into game is entirely on Plot, so I think it's important during discussions between a new packet and having a playtest to give ARC and your Plot teams the benefit of the doubt that costs are reasonable and that they'll send out a lot of different things so no one single Racial proves "the best" to have in every situation.

Until I see it play out, I'll continue saying that the costs seem fine as-is for what the skills defend against and how frequently I see those things in my games; I see WAY more things in my games I could Evade, so if I was inclined to play a Race with Evade as a Skill, I would consider buying a rank or two just in case if I didn't otherwise have easy access to it.

I'd love to hear about all the Spells and Poison that get flung around at your games! It sounds like a blast, honestly.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I'd love to hear about all the Spells and Poison that get flung around at your games! It sounds like a blast, honestly.
I use my 4 parries as spell parries more often then not. Despite having 4 spell shields in memory. I have 3 resist poisons and I tend to use them all lately, even though I memorize 4 poison shields. Though I will admit I have been through long streaks of not using them in the past. I rarely use my racial dodge, mostly cause I reserve it for dragon magic/arcane or something that I think will cause me to res.

That said I agree evade will be stronger in 2.0. I am just not convinced it is worth more then spell resist.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
....There’s a really good chance that I’ll be playing a Kyn with no racials.

Maybe a single Resist Spell and/or Resist Poison...

Maybe...
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
We can pull data on this subject and see if it's underutilized. ARC will get reports after each event of anonymized data for them to take a look at underutilized skills. Moving forward my hope is we'll be able to tweak the cost of things as we go.
 
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