ROCKS FOR CASTERS

Octaine

Artisan
I was talking to my friends last night about wands and the amount of damage a high level caster could do and we came up with this situation:

12 block = 108 packets to throw per reset.

12 + 1 = 13 damage a packet.

Here is my situation:

We had 3 - 4 high level fighters who used to throw rocks for 13 damage and in turn the rules on rocks were quickly nerfed. So will the same happen to wands if you had a team of high level casters???

Although it would be funny to see a bunch of casters raining packets down for a wave battle...like the OLD RAMBO movie.
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
I was totally expecting this to just be a thread where you ranted at all the casters to buy thrown weapon and just throw rocks all day for unlimited amounts of damage :)
 

Agahi

Scout
With the current wand ritual, you could already do 10 for as many times as you have rits. I think a good idea would be to keep that, and make it stackable with the new wand rule. Then a caster capable of doing the 10 damage ritual and has a 4 block could have 1 wand they could throw 15 damage with, and the other elements would be 5 damage. That was ritual casters get a combat ability, that they have been asking for. Also people with rits, and a huge block can get to around 20 damage with a single element, the same as an insanely high level fighter (you would have to be an even more insanely high level caster though). Though it would be kinda over powered unless the packets could be blocked. Just brainstorming. Maybe make it so if you get one high damage wand, the others are capped at 5, or just have an all around cap of 15 or so.
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
The proposal for wands is substantially different than the current wand ritual, and would be replacing it.
 

Sunnfire

Squire
Its still limited use, and they have to hit.

The biggest PC celestial caster I know of is close to an 8 block.

If you get 3-5 high level celestial casters together and they lay down a blanket of destruction, I say go them, its no different than a pocket of fighters mowing through baddies. They are still incanting, and throwing every single packet. They are throwing them in a size relatively close to what a equal level fighter could swing, but they will run out, and a fighter wont.
 

Agahi

Scout
I know justin, I saw that when I read the boards with the proposals (I know I suck). I was saying that it would be a cool idea, to make them stackable, then the whole argument about formalists not haveing combat effectiveness could be squashed (or at least simmered down)...though the power still being dependant on gold, ect would stick around. I know I would be fine with it though, because it would be a good bit of damage (15 with a 4 block and a bunch of formal) that could be thrown a crap ton of times :p
 

Octaine

Artisan
tieran said:
I was totally expecting this to just be a thread where you ranted at all the casters to buy thrown weapon and just throw rocks all day for unlimited amounts of damage :)
Cant rant on a Friday since I only read the boards at work. I pormise Justin not to let you down next time.
 
Sunnfire said:
Its still limited use, and they have to hit.

The biggest PC celestial caster I know of is close to an 8 block.

If you get 3-5 high level celestial casters together and they lay down a blanket of destruction, I say go them, its no different than a pocket of fighters mowing through baddies. They are still incanting, and throwing every single packet. They are throwing them in a size relatively close to what a equal level fighter could swing, but they will run out, and a fighter wont.
In addition, the casters need both hands to use their wands. They have no defense while using a wand.
 

Sunnfire

Squire
Duke Frost said:
In addition, the casters need both hands to use their wands. They have no defense while using a wand.
Bah, they have the same defenses they always had, meat shiel... I mean fighters.
 

Alor

Scholar
Gettysburg Staff
Sunnfire said:
Duke Frost said:
In addition, the casters need both hands to use their wands. They have no defense while using a wand.
Bah, they have the same defenses they always had, meat shiel... I mean fighters.
You don't have to mince words... some of us have more than accepted our roles as meat shields :lol:
 
Sunnfire said:
Duke Frost said:
In addition, the casters need both hands to use their wands. They have no defense while using a wand.
Bah, they have the same defenses they always had, meat shiel... I mean fighters.
You are implying teamwork.
 
I wanted to say one think about the new wand idea. Has anyone noticed how its really de-valued pyramids? I mean honestly using a wand with less than a 4 column really seems negligible. The other thing is that the rate at which wands get better seems to be a little bit wonky. Because they are pretty much trash (1 damage) until your all the way up to your 1st level 9. Then if you decide to go the way of the column they suddenly get decent (5 damage). I'm just curious what people think of this?

Please understand I'm in no way trying to undermine the new rule or anything! =\ Just posting for discussion. =)

P.S. the enchant blade rule adjustment is genius... =)
 

MKing

Scout
Dreamingfurther said:
I wanted to say one think about the new wand idea. Has anyone noticed how its really de-valued pyramids? I mean honestly using a wand with less than a 4 column really seems negligible. The other thing is that the rate at which wands get better seems to be a little bit wonky. Because they are pretty much trash (1 damage) until your all the way up to your 1st level 9. Then if you decide to go the way of the column they suddenly get decent (5 damage). I'm just curious what people think of this?

Please understand I'm in no way trying to undermine the new rule or anything! =\ Just posting for discussion. =)

P.S. the enchant blade rule adjustment is genius... =)
Ok, just having a 4 block you get 36 packets at 5 element flavor per day and 36 spells per day..thats a good bit of damage...so is having a true pyramid 9 1st up to 1 9th...so that would be 45 packets at 2 element flavor per day and 45 spells per day...me personaly I would go with true pyramid but thats just me..... and having less than a 4 block is still good...it adds to what the C. Caster can now do...remember its Elemental...so you got Elemental sheilds and Resist Elements as defences now...for spells...I think this is a great thing for C. casters...and once this rule goes into effect I will be making sure that any character that can Mem. C. spells will have wands!!

~Matt K.
 

Alavatar

Baron
No joke. A wand for every element.

Also, it gives a great reason to memorize more Elemental Shields.

Keep in mind that a prof for a fighter is 15 build, which adds 1 to their attack. A scholar spends 25 build to increase the damage of their wand, but they also get 9 more casts of the wand as well as more spiffy spells to use. And, the damage is elemental packet delivered so it doesn't have the same "hit" restrictions as arrows. :)
 
Although you are right that a pyramid caster will get more packets per day with the weaker wand look at the raw damage numbers. 36 casts of 5 elemental damage for the 4 column, that equals 180 raw damage, where as 45 casts of 2 elemental damage, that equals 90 raw damage. At least the numbers aren't quite equal... And to be honest I feel like if I had enough build for a true pyramid (about 10th level) would throwing 2's really mean much to me? Its like asking a fighter who is 10th level if they would care about throwing 2's. By the time you are 10th level generally the monsters you are fighting are gona laugh at 2's... =\ Duno that’s just one worry I had about it.

Still I agree its better than nothing. Not trying to bash the new rule or anything. This certainly an improvement! =)

I would however be interested to hear if the idea of awarding more damage was ever considered based on the amount of build a scholar had spend on celestial spell slots. Like 20, or even 25 build per point of damage? That would do the same thing but not hurt pyramid spell casters.=D
 

paythin

Adept
We still have many proposals to get thru, many good things coming! :)

Justin H-
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
Dreamingfurther said:
Although you are right that a pyramid caster will get more packets per day with the weaker wand look at the raw damage numbers. 36 casts of 5 elemental damage for the 4 column, that equals 180 raw damage, where as 45 casts of 2 elemental damage, that equals 90 raw damage.
The only problem I have with your math is that it completely discounts the actual spells that the caster is getting...

Which is huge...
 
Well actually I am not discounting the damage of the actual spells. As I posted a while ago on the old boards when you look at the raw damage that either a 4 column pumps out vs. a 9 slot pyramid they are almost identical. The four column does 900 damage and the 9 slot pyramid does 825. That difference is reasonable to deal with especially since you remember that you can throw more spells. Now however with wands the pyramid is limited to do severely less damage, (because its wands are so much less powerful.) And the respective increase in spells is only 9 more shots with the wand... =/ Just saying the math does slant towards one way over another.

And for the record I'm fully sure you guys have allot more in the way of proposals to work through. =) Keep up the good work! I'm very excited to read the actual book when it does finally come out. And I'm fully content to wait as long as it takes! =) *encouraging vibes to all the hard working leaders*
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
Right, but as it stands the majority of spells most people take for celestial are not damaging...

And you know getting into it pyramid vs column, which is going to be able to do what... so why does it matter?

but whatever, I think wands are good. I think celestial needs some more stuff... or maybe not more stuff, but maybe other people need less stuff...
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
Duke Frost said:
Sunnfire said:
Duke Frost said:
In addition, the casters need both hands to use their wands. They have no defense while using a wand.
Bah, they have the same defenses they always had, meat shiel... I mean fighters.
You are implying teamwork.
With every rule and change you have to take into account how would a team work with this...or as I and NJ liked to call it "is it BF proof"
 
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