Starting with Style Master

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Parzivel

Parzivel

Artisan
If a player is going into his/her first game with Style Master, what weapons can he/she bring in as starting equipment? With Flo/Two-Weapon, it is very clear that you get two weapon tags... can the player bring in a Small, a Short, and a Long as well as a Shield if he/she is starting with Style Master?
 
Usually chapters will provide the player with one "fighting style" set of equipment. So you would either get a long and short from two weapons style or you would get either a long or short with a shield for shield style.
 
So do I need to check with my Chapter to be sure?
 
I would check yes because the intepretation as per the rule book may vary:

(Page 78 from the online alliance rulebook)
"You are also given one weapon tag for
every weapon skill you possess. For instance,
if you buy the skill One Handed Edged, you
will get one tag for a one handed edged weapon
of your choice; if you buy the skill Florentine
or Two Weapons, then you will get two tags
since those skills need two weapons. You will
not be given a tag for every physical weapon
representation you bring into game."
 
Let's say you have "One-Handed Edge", "Florentine", and "Two Weapons". Three skills, three weapons. The rulebook doesn't actually state that they need to be weapons you can use - in theory, you could get three polearms, I suppose. The general intention, though, is that you're starting with a set of weapons that fit your skillset, so probably a long weapon, a short weapon, and a small weapon. I imagine no one would really bat an eye if you wanted two short weapons and a long, or three shorts, though. (If, otoh, you end up picking up three polearms, giving them to your merchant friend who turns them in for coin, then uses the coin and has your third blacksmithing friend make you two shorts and a long, (and letting your group pocket the excess) you're probably going beyond that bounds of what is intended. It's not exactly a massive abuse of the system, but definitely not something to be encouraged, and I wouldn't be surprised if you got told "no".)

Anyways, if your new character has "One-Handed Edge" and "Stylemaster", then you are only going to receive two weapon tags (or one weapon and one shield), even though, in theory, you could fight four different ways (single weapon, small weapon + another weapon, shield + another weapon, short weapon + another weapon). Two skills, so only two tags.
 
Seems a little weird that you lose tags by trading up from Florentine, Shield, and Two Weapon to Style Master. And no, my intention is certainly not to sell anything or cheese anything. I just want to be able to fight Sword&Board or Dual.
 
The starting equipment section is very specific in what it gives to players, but has the ability to make for non-intuitive situations.

Personally, I think the Starting Equipment section should be re-written to make players start with a defined amount of Production Points based on their level and spend those Production Points on weapons, armor, alchemical recipes, and spell books (also defining how many Production Points a recipe or spell requires) before coming into game with any left over Production Points being converted to coin.
 
Alavatar said:
Personally, I think the Starting Equipment section should be re-written to make players start with a defined amount of Production Points based on their level and spend those Production Points on weapons, armor, alchemical recipes, and spell books (also defining how many Production Points a recipe or spell requires) before coming into game with any left over Production Points being converted to coin.
Click to expand...

Sorry for going off topic, but I think this method of providing new characters gear is awesome. Has this idea been proposed before?
 
I don't think it should apply to armor. The production cost for our armor is absolutely ridiculous and unnecessarily high for upper level suits of armor.
 
I disagree. I would expect a PP by level would be along the lines of 5 silver + 5 silver per level, or something like that.

Armor only costs 140 PP for a 36-40 pt suit. Most level 1 characters I have seen entering game for the first time rarely have more than 15 points (40 PP). Besides, it is simple for a new player to get a few Goblin Stamps (especially in Seattle/Oregon where a back story nets 60 Goblin Stamps) thereby elevating their level high enough to be able to afford a good suit. By level 3 a character could then enter game with a Longsword (30PP), Shield (10PP), 40 pt armor (140PP), and have 20 copper left over.

Of course, the initial numbers are hypothetical. My point is that I believe you're exaggerating the cost of armor. :)
 
Higher level suits of armor are also ridiculously potent compared to low level character body values. It's not particularly difficult with the current rules to reach 14 points of armor before any discretionary bonus points are added, meaning that master crafted and in-period points could push you to 20 points of armor, the maximum for anyone but fighter and scout. 60 pp to roughly quadruple your total hit points (depending on race) for a first level character seems pretty fair, given that a starting elf fighter with one handed edged, two weapons and archery would get a long sword, short sword, long bow and quiver of arrows (75pp) under the current system before armor is even taken into consideration.

I wouldn't hate such a system at all, especially if it made allowance for a character to enter with scrolls or potions so that 15-build scholars didn't start with 7 spells and... literacy.
 
I started game with a full 35 points of armor. As a fighter why wouldn't you? If you even half assed read the rule book you can quickly learn what you can do for free. Why would you start with so little armor if you don't have to.
 
The cost of armor is more than mere numbers.

1) Without Plot intervention, it requires a character actually dedicated to Blacksmithing to be able to actually make one, with a minimum of 14 purchases of Blacksmithing assuming the player has access to a workshop. You might shrug and say "So what? That PC probably exists in every chapter, right?" Maybe, or maybe not. A player not dedicated to BS isn't going to drop that much build into it, and you can't always rely on access to a smith to get your big suit of armor.

2) If a PC invests a sizable amount of real money into having all his armor, in a game where you can have 30 points of magic armor in your underoos, why do we want the lowbie to be penalized? Just because...what...we can? Let him have his free 40 pt suit of armor if he wants. He's going to come into game looking like a badass, and that's exactly what I want new players to feel like. They still drop to damage, Death, Sleep, and all the other stuff the older characters have defenses against.
 
Well, for one because I frankly don't feel any character needs 40 points of armor, but aside from that:

1) Your town doesn't have a near-master level blacksmith willing to make you a 40-point suit? ASK for plot intervention. It's variously called an IBGA or a downtime submission, and seeking out a highly skilled smith who can craft a truly great suit of armor (and whatever favor you need to curry with him or her once your seeking is successful) is a perfectly valid use of such. Any plot team unwilling to allow such an action or suggest it to a newer player should have a pretty compelling reason for doing so because interacting and making connections with NPCs is, you know, a fairly important component of the game. In any chapter.

2) Do you see a lot of first time players showing up in plate armor? I don't. IF a hypothetical first time player showed up without in any way contacting having previously contacted the game staff after having read in the hypothetical new rule book about the pp cap for new player gear in full on steel plate to the tune of 40 points of armor and demands to have an exception be made... tell them no? I tell people no all the time for an exciting plethora of reasons, ranging from "No, sorry, that area isn't habitable so you can't be from there in your back story" to "No, sorry, your character cannot secretly be a fae". Sticking to your guns is an important skill, and telling someone "No, sorry, you can't simply start at 1st level with that much armor. You can strip down your suit some for now and work to get a better one in game, or you could donate or NPC to get goblin stamps to cover the difference," would be firmly in the realm of reasonable. Any new player who couldn't handle following the rules probably isn't a new player you would want to go out of your way to keep anyway.
 
To answer #2, the answer is, actually, yes.

Seattle recently had a sizable number of new players who showed up in plate armor.

Another of our regular players is making a new character intending to come in with plate, I believe.

There's no reason that I can see where they shouldn't be able to. I'm sorry if you disagree with me, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Relying on Plot intervention to provide a mundane object, IMO, is a pretty bad plan. Not that they wouldn't, but that it indicates something is wrong with the system in question.
 
Why is it a bad plan? A suit of armor of higher than 25 points is an incredibly valuable item, worth far more than most simple Enchant or Expanded Enchant item to those able to use it. Such a suit of armor represents, among other things, protection from carrier attacks, something that is invaluable in higher level play, at least in games I am familiar with. Because armor no longer degrades when breached that starting suit of armor will endure unless hit with a Destroy or lost due to dissipating somewhere it can't be recovered from. It is an enormously powerful piece of equipment that could last the lifetime of a character, awarded for FREE (to the detriment of blacksmiths, I might add) because someone has it the first time they play a character. There is no equivalent to this anywhere else in the rules. I cannot have scroll tags at character creation by providing the phys reps then, and those are single use items.
 
How about give every starting character 225 production points (+55 per level) worth of gear (convertible for coin at 1 copper per prod. point if you want)? 225 gives a fighter with OHE, OHB, Flor, 2-Weap. the following pieces of equipment: 1 long edged, 1 long blunt, 1 short (edged/blunt), 1 small (edged/blunt) and a 36-40 point suit of armor, the same as is currently possible. (Why OHB, OHE and not just OHM? Because it's only a temporary one-build-point loss that nets you an extra 25 production points.) (Why +55? Because our same fighter at 2nd level now picks up THS and Thrown - giving him a two-handed sword and a javelin.)

That's not to say this what you have to spend it on - maybe you get lighter armor and want some potions. Maybe you're a scholar and want some scrolls to compliment your memorization. Sure, maybe you gobbie up and NPC blanket a 20th level character, and now you come in with 1380 production points worth of equipment. That doesn't seem particularly game-breaking to me.
 
Forgot this was the Marshal only board. Had a question, will split.
 
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