[.11] Stun Limb and Paralysis

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Stun Limb and Paralysis are spells that are both great and terribly flawed.

Paralysis is a hard-KO with immunity weaknesses that make it a poor bet when compared to Purify, or even just memorizing a lower level Destruction, Lesser Earth Storm, or Confine instead.

Stun Limb is a very good spell in terms of reliability, but it’s a a soft-KO in that it doesn’t immediately take an enemy out of the fight.

The loss of Web is more of a hurt to C Casters than to E Casters, as we have Silence at 5th (a niche effect, to be sure, but still a weapon), and Weakness at 3rd (a strong debuff).

I think Stun Limb needs to be moved to 6th level. This would put it in competition with sleep, which is a hard-KO with immunity issues of its own. Paralysis is less likely to face a racial resist than Sleep, so this makes it slightly more powerful than sleep.

Due to this, I would move Destruction to 6th level, Paralysis to 7th level.

I would further convert Slow to a Curse and remove all Binding from E casters, to give C Casters more unique capability.
 
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I would really love this. I think that Cel casters need something to feel special in 2.0, and unless Evocation gets a solid boost, it's certainly not going to come from their "Signature Spell". Curses vs Binding would be an interesting dynamic!
 

Feldor

Scholar
Just to summarize the suggested change:
Code:
Earth:
   Pin            2nd -> --
   Repel          2nd -> --
   Slow           2nd -> 2nd     (Curse)
   Bind           3rd -> --
   Release        5th -> --
   Confine        7th -> --
   Destruction    7th -> 6th
   Paralysis      8th -> 7th
Celestial:
   Slow           2nd -> 2nd     (Curse)
   Stun Limb      8th -> 6th
Probably my biggest complaint is it leaves 8th list relatively bare - 2 spells + a signature spell. This change also leaves 2nd Earth really bare too, especially with how changes have made 'weapon shield' mostly useless (there's another thread on this). And to be honest, 1st, 3rd, 7th, 8th earth too - assuming you don't count the spells** that only affect undead. This leaves earth having 5 of 9 spell levels having only 2 non-signature spells usable against non-undead. Its also worth noting this leave sylvanborn earth casters with only "paralysis" or a signature spell to memorize at 7th list on non-undead weekends***.

To be honest, I'd love to see spells that only affect undead go away/change as they are often 'dead spots' in our spellbook. Earth already has the ability to throw healing as body damage against undead. I suppose they are needed so necromancers can have the reverse effect to use against the living; and earth casters can afford to memorize them now speculatively given that we can have flexible casting.

Code:
Spell counts:
Before      After
   C  E        C  E
1: 4  3     1: 4  3*
2: 5  4     2: 5  2
3: 4  4     3: 4  3*
4: 4  5     4: 4  5
5: 4  4     5: 4  3
6: 3  4     6: 4  5*
7: 2  4     7: 2  3*
8: 3  3     8: 2  2
9: 4  4     9: 4  4
Code:
Proposed spell lists:
Celestial
1: Evocation Bolt 5, Disarm, Fortress, Light, Lesser Investment 
2: Evocation Bolt 10, Weapon Shield, Repel, Pin, Slow, Mend Armor
3: Evocation Bolt 15, Bind, Shatter, Wall of Force, Solidify 
4: Evocation Bolt 20, Awaken, Banish, Enhanced Blade, Shun
5: Evocation Bolt 25, Release, Spell Shield, Subjugate, Lesser Magic Storm
6: Evocation Bolt 30, Elemental Shield, Sleep, Wizard Lock, Stun Limb
7: Evocation Bolt 35, Confine, Charm
8: Evocation Bolt 40, Dispel, Reflect Spell 
9: Evocation Bolt 45, Circle of Power, Magic Storm, Prison, Ward

Earth
1: Cure/Cause Wounds 5, Disarm, Endow, Turn Undead / Control Undead
2: Cure/Cause Wounds 10, Weapon Shield, Slow
3: Cure/Cause Wounds 15, Sanctuary / Desecrate, Weakness, Shatter
4: Cure/Cause Wounds 20, Awaken, Cleanse, Cure Disease / Disease, Poison Shield, Shun
5: Cure/Cause Wounds 25, Silence, Spell Shield, Lesser Earth Storm / Lesser Chaos Storm
6: Cure/Cause Wounds 30, Earth Blade / Chaos Blade, Elemental Shield, Sleep, Wither / Restore, Destruction
7: Cure/Cause Wounds 35, Charm, Destroy Undead / Create Undead, Paralysis
8: Cure/Cause Wounds 40, Purify / Drain, Reflect Spell
9: Cure/Cause Wounds 45, Circle of Power, Earth Storm / Chaos Storm, Life / Corrupt, Doom
footnotes:
* levels that have a "undead affecting only" earth spell
** assuming earth casters don't cast necromancy
*** I know some chapters see lots of undead. That has not been my recent experience, so the utility of undead-only spells seems low to me. And yes I play a sylvanborn earth caster.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Re: 8th level spells being too bare:

I’m going to have to disagree. During my playtest of a 10 Column E Caster, I took advantage of the ability to memorize lower level spells into upper slots, either during standard memorization or using Spell Swap. An 8th level slot has all the options at 8th level (Cure/Purify/Reflect) plus all the options below it. Lesser Earth Storm might be used for a bunch of healing, Paralysis or Destruction might be used, or maybe you’re badly in need of extra protectives. 8th level has incredible flexibility.
 
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