The Alliance historical timeframe

jpariury

Paragon
Ezri said:
We most certainly do. Pg 29 - "right at the verge of the renaissance, on the tail end of the dark ages." The amount of stuff I see that's far beyond that time period grates my nerves to no end.

We overlook things like dyes and modern footwear and glasses because well, it's far too much of a challenge to use only period dyes, and people just plain need their glasses and boots that don't make their ankles roll every 5 minutes. That's not a valid reason to build in-game items that don't fit the prescribed time period.
It's not just a matter of period dyes, though, but outright what colors are appropriate. Red, brighter green, and blues aren't really appropriate for non-nobles, and even for the nobles, the frequency with which we allow characters to wear them is widely out-of-sync with any form of historical context that we might try and apply here. There's a myriad of characters that tend to dress like characters from Pirates of the Caribbean which occurred a century after the end of the Rennaissance, and we don't sweat it. Sexism was all the fashion as well, and we don't bat an eye at the myriad of warrior women in play. There really isn't a popular custom of hiding every hair on your head. All that is to say, in short, we're a fantasy game. We're not the SCA or HACA; we aren't trying to recreate some historically accurate era. The "end of Dark Ages, cusp of Renaissance" bit is a guideline, but there's plenty of room, in the interest of a fantasy setting, on either end of that to allow for people dressed as Roman legionnaires, fur-coated Conan the Barbarian types, and wanna-be Jack Sparrows. Personally, an undercarriage "clip" doesn't really break the look and feel of the game for me.
 
not to mention that alchemy and magic exist... who knows what that would do to technology or the whole history of the world.
 
jpariury said:
Ezri said:
We most certainly do. Pg 29 - "right at the verge of the renaissance, on the tail end of the dark ages." The amount of stuff I see that's far beyond that time period grates my nerves to no end.

We overlook things like dyes and modern footwear and glasses because well, it's far too much of a challenge to use only period dyes, and people just plain need their glasses and boots that don't make their ankles roll every 5 minutes. That's not a valid reason to build in-game items that don't fit the prescribed time period.
It's not just a matter of period dyes, though, but outright what colors are appropriate. Red, brighter green, and blues aren't really appropriate for non-nobles, and even for the nobles, the frequency with which we allow characters to wear them is widely out-of-sync with any form of historical context that we might try and apply here. There's a myriad of characters that tend to dress like characters from Pirates of the Caribbean which occurred a century after the end of the Rennaissance, and we don't sweat it. Sexism was all the fashion as well, and we don't bat an eye at the myriad of warrior women in play. There really isn't a popular custom of hiding every hair on your head. All that is to say, in short, we're a fantasy game. We're not the SCA or HACA; we aren't trying to recreate some historically accurate era. The "end of Dark Ages, cusp of Renaissance" bit is a guideline, but there's plenty of room, in the interest of a fantasy setting, on either end of that to allow for people dressed as Roman legionnaires, fur-coated Conan the Barbarian types, and wanna-be Jack Sparrows. Personally, an undercarriage "clip" doesn't really break the look and feel of the game for me.


Just offhand, if we're going for that time period we really have a problem when it comes to garb. How many of us actually use linen, wool, flax, and leather for everything? Is there a packet for each chapter detailing what goods are traded there so we can justify the colors and materials we're working with? What historical era should we be fishing for patterns? How about armor designs?

Frankly, I figure Alliance to be on the same level of authenticity as the average Renfaire. Just as long as costumes aren't jarringly bad, and we're not That Guy in a chain shirt and cloak over a Metallica t-shirt, jeans, and white tennis shoes, we're doing alright.
 
and here, I thought Metallica transcended space & time.
 
I think the issue is more the t-shirt than Metallica. :D I'm seeing someone with a leather jerkin with a Metallica album cover hand-tooled onto the back...
 
Even if someone did have a home-made metallica tabard, that just means we'll have more weird press when Lars and the RIAA eventually sues them.

That actually could be good for exposure, though.
 
Also note the Euro-centric timeline, as the Islamic Empire of Northern Africa and the Middle East had the technology of the Renaissance and beyond centuries before Europe while Europe was still deep in the Dark Ages.

Basically it's a loose time line referring to the time of kingdoms, nobles, and other political structures, before the rise of democratic city-states and other modern (classical) social and economic structures. The fashion of the time and other issues of the common person were not recorded other than paintings and other artistic representations or writings of a religious text or by another literate person (usually a noble's personal letters/observations), as the commoner was not educated enough to write about their experiences first-hand, so even if we tried for realism, it relies on assumptions and lack of evidence ... (As I have a BA in History, I'll stop myself there before I go on and on and on).

Long story short, as others have mentioned, we are a fantasy game and these are loose guidelines to create a general feel for the atmosphere of the game. We are creating our own world, not re-creating an earlier time in this one.
 
this is why i love history majors. so much knowledge...

my brother is a history major and i love listening to his rants on china, and greece (major in classics and east asian history)
 
My point was more that while we ARE a fantasy game and certain things (like gender equality) were obviously not part of a historically correct translation, there are certain things that I find very jarring that do not at all fit into the medieval high fantasy world that the game is supposed to be. For as much as I enjoy steampunk, this is high on my list of stuff that doesn't belong in Alliance. This isn't WoW, I have no desire to play or run "WoW the Larp" where you have victorian-style garb and props alongside medieval. Springs and gears and top hats and goggles and the like don't fit the image of the LOTR/DnD feel the game is supposed to have.

<sits and waits for the flames>
 
Ezri said:
My point was more that while we ARE a fantasy game and certain things (like gender equality) were obviously not part of a historically correct translation, there are certain things that I find very jarring that do not at all fit into the medieval high fantasy world that the game is supposed to be. For as much as I enjoy steampunk, this is high on my list of stuff that doesn't belong in Alliance. This isn't WoW, I have no desire to play or run "WoW the Larp" where you have victorian-style garb and props alongside medieval. Springs and gears and top hats and goggles and the like don't fit the image of the LOTR/DnD feel the game is supposed to have.

<sits and waits for the flames>

rable rabble rabble!!!!!

hahaha, i get your point
 
Ezri said:
...this is high on my list of stuff that doesn't belong in Alliance. This isn't WoW, I have no desire to play or run "WoW the Larp" where you have victorian-style garb and props alongside medieval. Springs and gears and top hats and goggles and the like don't fit the image of the LOTR/DnD feel the game is supposed to have.

That's fine, that's the game you want to play and run but maybe other people want play and run a different style of game.
 
Ezri said:
Springs and gears and top hats and goggles and the like don't fit the image of the LOTR/DnD feel the game is supposed to have.

Completely agree. The rules do specifically address the science of the period, which should rule out things such as steampunk (to use your example), dynamite, spring-loaded weapons, etc. On the other hand, the dress as far as I can tell isn't as well defined. Understandably so since there are different races with different cultures that, in some cases, originated here in this game. I would also surmise given the very large scope of fantasy genres being included, it might be more of a slippery slope for the powers that be to try to censor or micro-manage that aspect. Just hearty speculation on my part. Who addresses things of that nature? Does it count as a rules infraction (the science part is for sure) to be dressed in out-of-timeline garb or is it more of an unwritten 'bad form' rule and you just have to grit your teeth?
 
And there are Steampunk LARPs for those people to play. The proliferation of LARPs in the past 10 years or so makes it easy to find games that fit your vision of what LARP should be. I think we would be better served by defining the Alliance brand, and then working within that framework to reinforce the brand rather than trying to incorporate every new fad coming down the pike. As our hobby moves from the deep fringe of gaming into the light of the inner fringe I believe it is the games that value consistency and have a clear and defined vision that are going to prosper.
 
Nope, but having been part of the rules system for so long some grandfathering would be needed.
 
I think people are taking this a little too seriously. (and thats ok) But we are forgetting something or perhaps its just out of sight) This is a game. A fun game, a game some people take way too seriously at times but a game none the less to enjoy. What matters is what you put into it and what you get out of it.

I have met some SCA people who take it way too serious and look down at everything else that could encroach on what they feel is a lifestyle. I have also met some who take it for what it is.. an enjoyable hobby who embrace it but know when to say when.

We LARP in a fantasy setting and its loosely based on the DND/LOTR genre.. sometimes we have these that are more modern and sometimes re regress in our themes. Why cant we just enjoy the game for what it is. Who is to say there were no pirates in our fantasy game (for those who like to dress in that fashion), or that Colorful exotic costumes were not in style (for those who like the Asian themes and the Conan im too furry for this sword look), We didnt see Joan of Arc running around historically in a Mail bikini (although that would be a sight considering her predicament and her age)

To some the idea of a Dwarf with googles and tools hanging from their belt and smudge stains from working on mythical contraptions is ideal and to some dressing in fancy gold/silver embrodered clothing while holding teacups and discussing the goings on at court is ideal.. others live for combat with swords clanking on armor and shields and others prefer to sit in a dark room crafting potions... who is to say what exists in a fantasy setting.. isnt that up to the individual person and what they envision for their own character?

You can give a guide as to what you want to see but you need to be flexible in what you get. Every PC that walks thru the door to play adds flavor to the game in what they bring....

So lets see the those maile bikinis and Fur cloaks, lets see the leather loin cloths and body tribal paints....We play in a fantasy setting where we write our character histories that influence the world around us.

We dont need to be absolutely historically correct to the time period... we need to be correct to our imaginations and our interpretations of what Fantasy medievil genre is.
 
Sym of Moria said:
I think people are taking this a little too seriously. (and thats ok) But we are forgetting something or perhaps its just out of sight) This is a game. A fun game, a game some people take way too seriously at times but a game none the less to enjoy. What matters is what you put into it and what you get out of it.

I have met some SCA people who take it way too serious and look down at everything else that could encroach on what they feel is a lifestyle. I have also met some who take it for what it is.. an enjoyable hobby who embrace it but know when to say when.

We LARP in a fantasy setting and its loosely based on the DND/LOTR genre.. sometimes we have these that are more modern and sometimes re regress in our themes. Why cant we just enjoy the game for what it is. Who is to say there were no pirates in our fantasy game (for those who like to dress in that fashion), or that Colorful exotic costumes were not in style (for those who like the Asian themes and the Conan im too furry for this sword look), We didnt see Joan of Arc running around historically in a Mail bikini (although that would be a sight considering her predicament and her age)

To some the idea of a Dwarf with googles and tools hanging from their belt and smudge stains from working on mythical contraptions is ideal and to some dressing in fancy gold/silver embrodered clothing while holding teacups and discussing the goings on at court is ideal.. others live for combat with swords clanking on armor and shields and others prefer to sit in a dark room crafting potions... who is to say what exists in a fantasy setting.. isnt that up to the individual person and what they envision for their own character?

You can give a guide as to what you want to see but you need to be flexible in what you get. Every PC that walks thru the door to play adds flavor to the game in what they bring....

So lets see the those maile bikinis and Fur cloaks, lets see the leather loin cloths and body tribal paints....We play in a fantasy setting where we write our character histories that influence the world around us.

We dont need to be absolutely historically correct to the time period... we need to be correct to our imaginations and our interpretations of what Fantasy medievil genre is.

Well put bro...well put. Bravo!!
 
what sym said

steampunk, renaissance, dark ages, golden age of elves... I dont care.. if you look well dressed for a fantasy game, have a decent enough IG explaination of where you are from, who you are and its plot approved, then REALLY.. what difference does it make. Isnt this a game more about getting to gether with friends and having a good time protraying the characters you want to play? Limiting peoples creative outlets by stipulating what does and does not fit into a "Fantasy" time period just seems overly controlling when most wardrobes are fairly in period. Lets not nit pick. Its not like people are coming into game wearing Warhammer 40K outfits wanting to spell craft A rocket Launcher... a few goggles and gears hurts nothing. "THE GOGGLES... THEY DO NOTHING" to hurt alliance.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juFZh92MUOY[/youtube]
 
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