The value of game days

[jpariury]

Personally I believe that game days are among the worst form of NERO and should only be used to draw in new players and get them familiar with the rules. It's shouldn't be used for adventures for the main part of your PC base. It generally detracts from the seriousness of interactions found at events.

...I beleve gamedays and mod days should be pretty common. There are often little things that players want to do (often low level charicters) that they cant get staff or NPCs for becouse at an event everything is to busy. Gamedays also allow for smaller arrangments and more of a hands on feel that is good for new NPCs and new Plot members as well. I would say at least 12 gamedays would be good.

I agree with Marc that gamedays are not really NERO, at least, in the way that I have seen the West Coast chapters run them. A NERO gameday does not produce the same game atmosphere that a full event does.

Playing in a public park reduces the level of immersion that NERO, in my opinion, is best played at. It also requires a greater suspension of disbelief - it is often played in the common "game environment" (i.e. Crossroads), but in a different OOG location (such-and-such park, for instance). It has no resemblance to the location being "physrepped", but players are required to act as though it were. At the same time, they have to pretend that they somehow managed to be in this town where any number of non-attending players live without being spotted doing whatever it is they are doing.

Alternatively, they require a Deus Ex Machina device to have them be elsewhere, outside of the reasonable amount of time. Again, this makes the world a very different one from the one played at events: at events, you get to where you are going generally by actually moving your body there, at game days, significantly more of this movement is covered by "and poof, you are there".

As Marc suggested, this creates a game in which the seriousness with which you treat the game as a whole is lowered. It turns NERO into more table-top, less live action.

 

[Kauss]

Its not a huge surprise you would say that JP (no offence intended). The reason I say this is that you often play what I would call "central charicters". You play charicters that thrive in events and do well in high and low settings. You often have no problem getting into plots, and if you want you can swing votes and get a say with ease. Heck, from a player standpoint I dont really like to play at gamedays unless its a mod I have requested (Mostly becouse when its a mod its A)what I wanted to do and B) Often has other charicters I wanted to game with.)

However for many gamedays are very good. I have seen a number of "lesser charicters" (No offence to them either) have some great RP, and a number if low to middle charicters who feel that they get more done at gamedays and get more rewards as well (Since in the smaller setting vulture looting seems to be a hair harder, or at least less common.)

Now I agree, gamedays are often less fully IG, due to location, newness of some of the players, and newness of some of the NPCs. (Often at gamedays I see brand new NPCs who know almost nothing of the game past what X friend told them.)
As to being in town and not seeing people who live there, thats exactly like events actally. I know Kauss has gone months worth of events not seeing people who live there becouse their players live in diffrent states, or have been busy, or just arnt playing. Myself as an example. Kauss lives in the crossroads, but you cant find him at gamedays that I(the player) run. However you also cant find me at events becouse I(the player) am not there.

Now we can argue tastes and disslikes till the cows come home, but I think the best thing to do would be to try and make gamedays more event like. I mean the campsite isnt a representation of all of the crossroads, and so there should be an easy way to just use other local areas IG that represent the other ooc areas we use (For example, for the longest time the hamlin park gamedays were outside a little known and often run down tavern that was on the other side of town from the one we use in events.)

In addition, and this goes to players who like gamedays, or want to do stuff that they dont seem to have time to do at events, REQUEST MODS, make your wants known. If players say they want to do X, and get some PCS and NPCS plot can often work things out, get the right costumes, make sure the right NPCs are there, and even get props ready (For example (and dont ask me unless you really wanted this) if someone wanted a mod where they were going into the spider caves to do X(Not going to go into X as it might be plotty secret stuff still) then all spiders could be preped, the webs could be physreped, ect.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Hmm...
I think that I enjoy weekends more then gamedays for sure, but there are benefits to gamedays. For the last several years, the plot team seemed unable to run more then one real mod per weekend, and going to a gameday meant that not only was the group who went smaller, but that everyone was more important. Basically, you were guaranteed a mod with loot, much less waiting, a more intimate group, and daylight. The new plot team I think has learned from some of the mistakes of the last, and I think that those reasons are starting to become less important.
I do like gamedays for the 'more personal attention' reasons previously stated. I generally don't like to hijack a plot person for an hour at an event (but I've gotten more used to it, since it seems to be the way that the game is run). I can do that much more easily at a gameday, because in theory, they're dealing with much less at the time and can take more time.
If I'm planning on doing something for 'my group, no clingers' I like requesting modules. This isn't something that I've done with the current plot team, but in my experience, it's hard to actually pull off what you're trying to do, even if it's relatively mundane.
I also like gamedays for the "I have 4-6 hours to blow a days worth of spells" thing. It generally leads to either much more intense combat, or much, much easier combat, depending on who's doing the scaling. I enjoy "kick in the door" kinds of gamedays, because RP gamedays are kind of lame, mostly because of all the things that JP and Marc have said. There's less immersion, you can't really resolve much "plot" because it's reserved for weekends, etc.
I also agree that they're good for new players, but so are fighter's practices.
All that being said, I generally think that gamedays, as they are, are kind of pointless and retract from the game as a whole. I do like having gamedays a couple weeks before Events, because I generally feel that "local players" should have an advantage over "foreign players", that is, some pcs live in the area, and some don't, and the ones that do should have home field advantage to some extent.
Aside from those, having a few mods from time to time for specific groups (generally requested mods from those groups) to drive their personal goals, or to do sneaky/evil/questionable things outside of an event I think is fine. Scheduled gamedays of "this weekend, there are some mostly unrelated events to the main plot occurring in an unusual place near the event site" are unnecessary.

 

[Sarah]

I know for a fact that the last plot team was running several mods each event. Generally, there was a large one, a few middling ones, and a scattering of small ones. I don't know this because I live with the former HoP. I know this because I was sitting in the circle resurrecting people and writing down how they died.

There's always been a lot out there to go after at events. Getting it done, however, is another matter. Usually involving not enough NPCs. If you want to go do some special mod at an event, double hooking is a great way to make sure you get your stuff done and someone else gets theirs. I realize some people just aren't willing to do it (especially the heavy makeup types which is actually understandable) because they paid to PC.

But for those who can't get it done at events due to OOG restrictions like the above, game days NEED to happen. Not just should. Need. Everyone should have the opportunity to play and advance their characters. That doesn't happen for quite a few of the non-central characters at events. If you don't like that, then start incorporating them more in your activities IG. Find a way.

*shrug* You get out of the game what you're willing to give to it.

 

[Seattle_Jim]

Hmm...
I think that I enjoy weekends more then gamedays for sure, but there are benefits to gamedays. For the last several years, the plot team seemed unable to run more then one real mod per weekend, and going to a gameday meant that not only was the group who went smaller, but that everyone was more important. Basically, you were guaranteed a mod with loot, much less waiting, a more intimate group, and daylight. The new plot team I think has learned from some of the mistakes of the last, and I think that those reasons are starting to become less important.

Well there are several reasons for this IMHO. You have a specific idea of what a mod is that did not match up with the old plot teams. You and your coterie would often not follow up on mods for I am sure are lots of different reasons depending on each mod. Many people would miss plot hooks, you included and I know that some mods were actually kept from the gypsies by PCs because of the PCs feelings about the gypsies.

I am glad that you enjoyed the event and got to feel special and get loot- I wish that everyone could come away from every event like that, but that is not the case and from what I've heard this last one was no exception. Don't get me wrong, by and large I've heard it was a good event and most people enjoyed themselves.

As for game days, they have their place. I personally do not like them, but I think they are important for keeping interest up, introducing side plots/personal plots, and introducing new players to the rules. I do think though that new people are more likely to stick around if they experiance a weekend event first.

 

[meltedwing]

My opinion aside:

Game days, the seattle and NW chapters, were originally used as a method to fill in the gaps between events when the chapter(s) went through a rough time for a year or so. Before that rough time game days were not run at all, but some players held fighter practices so that newer players could get better at playing the game. After the rough period, when events were being run more frequently again, the game days didn't go away as they should have.

This caused several things. People didn't deeply desire the events anymore and had less fun while they were there as well as not putting as much effort into the game before and during events. People started treating Nero like a coin op video game and delved into the atmosphere a lot less. Newer players saw this experience and considered it "NERO", and then were later on staff to continue that trend.

When looking at what Nero was, in the "good ol' days", and what it is now I would say that they are two completely different games. The rules have changed somewhat, but more than that, the people running the game have drastically altered the feel and manner in which the game is run.

Now for my opinion:

Gamedays detract severely from the feel of Nero. Too many events in a year (more than 4 per year) detract from the feel of Nero. Too many requirements for suspension of disbelief detract from the feel of Nero.

The less you phys rep something the less people are going to feel immersed in the environment. The whole "on the edge of a great city" aspect to Nero seattle has long been something I disliked.

I really like playing Nero and I really like larping, but there are certain guidelines for running a good game that get violated in a regular basis and that tends to make the jobs of the staff and the enjoyment of the players (including staff) more difficult.

 

[Shikar al'Basteua]

"on the edge of a great city"

Huh? I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from, as every iteration I've played through occurred in either an isolated trade stop or an isolated border town. The only thing that *makes* them important is the fact that we're there and the fact that bad things seem to happen there that justify our presence.

 

[jpariury]

I believe what Mark was referring to was the original write-up Daphne offered a a few of us for Crocevia Fatuae was that we were on the edge of a much larger city. Above and beyond what is repped, there were things like the mage-people's tower, assorted estates, housing for the Sindaco, the Lagraetman, etc., another Earth circle, more farm houses, the shipyards, the drydocks, etc. It was a major trading citadel, not an isolated border town.

 

[Shikar al'Basteua]

Apparently we have much different imagery of what a large city is.

 

[meltedwing]

The point is that some things that happen in Nero (at least on the west coast anyway) interfere with the intended feel of the game. I believe that the current iteration of game days does this.

 

[Seattle_Dave]

To steer this back to the value of game days, as we seem to have another topic entirely going on (what is the Crossroads, where does it stand, etc.) -

I see game days as a means of supplementing the plot between events. To this end, theplots run by the NS plot staff are directly related to the plots which will be running at the upcoming events. There will be clues given, charactes introduced, things happening, etc., which the people who atend the game day are then able to have as information going into an event. Examples recently have included: information on this whole Zot/Smoosh thing going on with the Goblins, Coldsnap (including the masks), Some information on the wine you all have avoided drinking, and some other plots which have advanced slowly or not at all due to the plot hooks not being caught by the small game day attendance.

As you can see, it is also a means of becoming involved in these plots before the larger community sinks their talons into them. Then, when the event arrives, it's you who is able to have the information needed to get things done right (whoever you are).

As to the differences between this staff and the last? Yes, we are aiming for some differences. This is not the last team, and we are, by nescessity of not being that team, going to do some things different. I *will* say that not everyone at the event was as involved as they or we would like them to be. It is nigh on impossible to involve everyone in every event. I would also like to say that we are building on the experiences from the last staff, and it is only because of them and their work that we are able to have a rich and diverse world to play in.

 

[Cerulean Jax]

Just my two cents on this particular point, but if I had never tried out a game day and enjoyed it, I certainly wouldn't have tried a whole weekend. I think a gameday CAN *not that they always are, but can be* a cross-section of the event-style games, to whet people's appetites and make them want more. I think that a good gameday should be like a good movie trailer: it shows you some action, gets you interested in the story, and makes you want to go check out the whole film.

On the other end of the spectrum though, even though i've enjoyed many of the game days, there have also been many that have seemed very pointless to anything my character was interested in, and yes, that's hard to get into. NOT that it should always be about my character, nothing like that at all, but if i don't know what a gameday is going to be about ahead of time, i can't say whether or not it would fit my character's interests/motivations to be involved. (again, the movie trailer idea is a good thing, lets people know what to expect from something)

Well there are several reasons for this IMHO. You have a specific idea of what a mod is that did not match up with the old plot teams. You and your coterie would often not follow up on mods for I am sure are lots of different reasons depending on each mod. Many people would miss plot hooks, you included and I know that some mods were actually kept from the gypsies by PCs because of the PCs feelings about the gypsies.

I am glad that you enjoyed the event and got to feel special and get loot- I wish that everyone could come away from every event like that, but that is not the case and from what I've heard this last one was no exception. Don't get me wrong, by and large I've heard it was a good event and most people enjoyed themselves.

As for game days, they have their place. I personally do not like them, but I think they are important for keeping interest up, introducing side plots/personal plots, and introducing new players to the rules. I do think though that new people are more likely to stick around if they experiance a weekend event first.

 

[Cerulean Jax]

....well I'm glad everyone ELSE was able to avoid drinking the wine *grin*..*ahem*...

 

[Anonymous]

The look on your face was great when I downed a good amount of that bottle.

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

As for game days, I like them, I think they are a great way to advance plot.

 

[Sarah]

On the other end of the spectrum though, even though i've enjoyed many of the game days, there have also been many that have seemed very pointless to anything my character was interested in, and yes, that's hard to get into. NOT that it should always be about my character, nothing like that at all, but if i don't know what a gameday is going to be about ahead of time, i can't say whether or not it would fit my character's interests/motivations to be involved. (again, the movie trailer idea is a good thing, lets people know what to expect from something)

You should consider bringing some NPC gear with you to the days you aren't sure are going to be "with it" for your character. MC can always use another good NPC and there's a lot of benefits to NPCing. Like exploring different skill sets, learning more of the rules and your character not dying.

 

[Cerulean Jax]

That's very true, good idea. BUt that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea to know what the game days are going to be about ahead of time *heh*..or to have more gamedays which are personalized to the characters that Plot knows are showing up *hence a good idea for the PC's to pre-reg for gamedays as well*

You should consider bringing some NPC gear with you to the days you aren't sure are going to be "with it" for your character. MC can always use another good NPC and there's a lot of benefits to NPCing. Like exploring different skill sets, learning more of the rules and your character not dying.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Well...

Man, you come out of nowhere! Are you hiding in a tree somewhere? This is like the second or third post in a row directed at me out of the small handful you've made in the last 8 months. I feel loved.

Anyways,

That's very true, good idea. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea to know what the game days are going to be about ahead of time

Last time I checked, this was actually required by HQ (but it's been a while since I checked). I know you have to have descriptions of events, maybe gamedays are more loose. Either way, I agree that it would be a good idea. While I'm generally too far from the regular site to make games, there were a number of ones that I specifically came to in the past because of their write-ups on the website. It also helps the plot team get their juices flowing way ahead of time when they already have an idea of what they're expected to be running.

 

[Kauss]

The point is that some things that happen in Nero (at least on the west coast anyway) interfere with the intended feel of the game. I believe that the current iteration of game days does this.

Not to be offensive but, since I havent seen you at a game day for months, what gamedays have you been attending/staffing that gives you this feeling?

 

[Kauss]

That's very true, good idea. BUt that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea to know what the game days are going to be about ahead of time *heh*..or to have more gamedays which are personalized to the characters that Plot knows are showing up *hence a good idea for the PC's to pre-reg for gamedays as well*

That would be great. I know as a runner of gamedays it was much easyer to run when I knew at least X people were going to attend and who some of them were. It allowed me to weave plots into the gamedays and keep a running plotline for those who only played gamedays sometimes.(aka the regulers would tell the sometimes players what was going on in general)