Weapon Construction Guidelines Change

[Polare]

There has been a major update to Alliance's weapon construction guidelines. Please see this post:

http://alliancelarp.com/forum/viewtopic ... 98&t=14871

If you have questions as to how this affects Alliance Seattle, please feel free to post them here. I know the proposal pretty well since I'm the one who came up with it and wrote it

Note that I will be going in and updating the "Alliance Seattle Weapon Guidelines" post in this forum in the next couple of days to comply with the updated national guidelines.

-Bryan

 

[jacobbissonette]

So does this mean that rocks are completely tagged and blacksmithed, weapon proficiencied, vorpaled, ritual enabled, eviscerating weapons of mass destruction? If so, dibs on character concept.

 

[Polare]

So does this mean that rocks are completely tagged and blacksmithed, weapon proficiencied, vorpaled, ritual enabled, eviscerating weapons of mass destruction? If so, dibs on character concept.

Yes. There is no longer an "untagged rock" thrown weapon category.

 

[Alavatar]

Is this effective immediately in Alliance Seattle?

Will marshals checking weapons at the event this Friday be measuring weapons to the new lengths and, if necessary, directing folks to get new tags from Logistics?

For Alliance Seattle, "all non-striking surfaces which may come into contact with another player (such as the shaft of a blunt weapon or polearm, crossguards, and the flats of sword blades) must be protected with sufficient closed cell foam to ensure safety should accidental strikes happen with those areas of the weapon" ... what is "sufficient closed cell foam"? Marshal discretion? A specific thickness? Can't feel the core pressing the thumb print into the non-striking surface?

For the new rule about boulders : "Chapters may rule that some specific Thrown weapons, called Boulders, may only be lifted by creatures with Superhuman Strength and the skill Thrown Weapon. Boulders are usually represented by garbage bags full of wrinkled paper or open cell foam and will be tagged appropriately." ... Since it is now a Chapter Specific rule as to whether or not Superhuman Strength is required will that need to be announced similar to the mechanics of Massive?

"All weapons which are intended to allow thrusting must have a thrusting tip." ... Who defines when a weapon is intended to allow thrusting? If it is the user, then why not use language similar to Waylay tips?

Previously, 60" was acceptable for Polearms. Now that the minimum is 62" will we fail previously accepted polearms (and therefore determined to now be a two-handed blunt)?

For heads: "The head must be noticeably thicker than the pipe insulation and should squash easily." ... Do we have a guidelines or dimension recommendation? Something like "squash to half it's height" maybe? Or, perhaps we create a new unit for "squashyness" as in inches per inch^3 per pound? Or, is this another "marshal discretion"?

Just a few questions.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

We had a previous guideline for 'squishiness,' that it should compress to half it's height easily and spring back to it's original shape within one second.

Boulders are just a big throwing weapon now, and seem to have lost all of their nifty powers. I think they generally look goofy and would be inclined to discourage them, so my preference would be to limit their use to Superhuman Strength critters. On that note, I don't think they'll come up at this event.

 

[Polare]

Matt answered the "boulder" question. Some other answers below:

Is this effective immediately in Alliance Seattle?

Will marshals checking weapons at the event this Friday be measuring weapons to the new lengths and, if necessary, directing folks to get new tags from Logistics?

With an event this close, that's a good question. I'll be bringing this up with the Marshals and we will make a determination for this event. My recommendation will be that we allow either the old or the new definition for this event (i.e. someone with a 34" sword can "choose" what to call it for this event) - it may result in a little "huh?" for this event, but that's better than telling people they can't use their weapons a week before the event.

For Alliance Seattle, "all non-striking surfaces which may come into contact with another player (such as the shaft of a blunt weapon or polearm, crossguards, and the flats of sword blades) must be protected with sufficient closed cell foam to ensure safety should accidental strikes happen with those areas of the weapon" ... what is "sufficient closed cell foam"? Marshal discretion? A specific thickness? Can't feel the core pressing the thumb print into the non-striking surface?

Can't feel the core when pushing your thumb in is an excellent guideline. At the end of the day it's always up to marshal discretion, of course, but I feel in most cases that so long as you can't feel the core it should probably pass inspection. I say "probably" because some cases might need more - for example, if your "non-striking surface" goes excessively far up a polearm shaft, the higher sections might need extra padding since they can strike the target with more force than the section near the grip.

"All weapons which are intended to allow thrusting must have a thrusting tip." ... Who defines when a weapon is intended to allow thrusting? If it is the user, then why not use language similar to Waylay tips?

The user determines this. I'll look at updating the language to match Waylay tips.

Previously, 60" was acceptable for Polearms. Now that the minimum is 62" will we fail previously accepted polearms (and therefore determined to now be a two-handed blunt)?

See above for this coming event. Down the line, yes, 60" polearms will no longer pass.

For heads: "The head must be noticeably thicker than the pipe insulation and should squash easily." ... Do we have a guidelines or dimension recommendation? Something like "squash to half it's height" maybe? Or, perhaps we create a new unit for "squashyness" as in inches per inch^3 per pound? Or, is this another "marshal discretion"?

Note that I updated the guidelines for Seattle in the upper post (just a few minutes ago!) to compare the safety of heads to be at least as safe (in the marshal's view) as a latex sword blade. This is significantly less "squishy" than was previously required (but also allows a huge range of latex weapons which technically didn't pass before even if perfectly safe).

 

[Alavatar]

Matt answered the "boulder" question.

Kind of. Is Matt's answer a "universal" rule for Alliance Seattle? And it does not require an announcement like the carrier "Massive" does?

With an event this close, that's a good question.

So my other questions are stupid?! I see how it is.

But, seriously, thanks for the quick response.

 

[Polare]

Kind of. Is Matt's answer a "universal" rule for Alliance Seattle? And it does not require an announcement like the carrier "Massive" does?

If Plot wants to have Boulders for an event, they would need to make an announcement at opening since Boulders no longer have standardized rules.

Basically, it was a case of "underutilized section of the rules with easy solution if a chapter wants to use them".

 

[Alavatar]

If Plot wants to have Boulders for an event, they would need to make an announcement at opening since Boulders no longer have standardized rules.

Since boulders are now just large Thrown Weapons a Blacksmith can make them for the Thrown Weapon price. So players can get their hands on them despite what Plot has to say. (Unless the "case-by-case" clause comes into effect and the chapter believes that boulders are not safe, thus not allowed at all, in which case a guideline for how big your Thrown Weapon can be will be required)

Combined with what you just said, if Plot does not mandate that "Thrown Weapons above 1ft^3 require Superhuman Strength in addition to the Thrown Weapon skill to use" ... then any player can use them?

I am not saying there is any incentive there because without the Massive carrier accompanying the ability to use boulders they are effectively useless (i.e. blocked by shields or swatted out of the air with a weapon). I am just looking for a closed loop here. You know someone will bring in a boulder unless otherwise specifically told they can't use it.

 

[Polare]

Since boulders are now just large Thrown Weapons a Blacksmith can make them for the Thrown Weapon price. So players can get their hands on them despite what Plot has to say. (Unless the "case-by-case" clause comes into effect and the chapter believes that boulders are not safe, thus not allowed at all, in which case a guideline for how big your Thrown Weapon can be will be required)

Combined with what you just said, if Plot does not mandate that "Thrown Weapons above 1ft^3 require Superhuman Strength in addition to the Thrown Weapon skill to use" ... then any player can use them?

I am not saying there is any incentive there because without the Massive carrier accompanying the ability to use boulders they are effectively useless (i.e. blocked by shields or swatted out of the air with a weapon). I am just looking for a closed loop here. You know someone will bring in a boulder unless otherwise specifically told they can't use it.

Incorrect, my good sir! Boulders are *not* just large Thrown Weapons. Players may indeed bring Thrown Weapons which are extremely large, but those are not boulders. Boulders are something which Plot may (or may not) choose to bring into game. If they did, the object (however large it was) would be tagged as "LCO: Boulder. Do not move unless allowed to by plot.", and Plot would announce that "there may be boulders at this event which require Superhuman Strength to move, blah blah blah".

So:
1. Large thrown weapons (within the new size limits) are "sure, ya betcha" for any player (though of course they must be tagged and checked for safety).
2. Boulders are no longer specified under the rules. They are an entirely LCO thing and have nothing to do with size. They could be as big as a house or as small as a mouse.

-Bryan

 

[Alavatar]

Incorrect, my good sir! Boulders are *not* just large Thrown Weapons. Players may indeed bring Thrown Weapons which are extremely large, but those are not boulders. Boulders are something which Plot may (or may not) choose to bring into game. If they did, the object (however large it was) would be tagged as "LCO: Boulder. Do not move unless allowed to by plot.", and Plot would announce that "there may be boulders at this event which require Superhuman Strength to move, blah blah blah".

So:
1. Large thrown weapons (within the new size limits) are "sure, ya betcha" for any player (though of course they must be tagged and checked for safety).
2. Boulders are no longer specified under the rules. They are an entirely LCO thing and have nothing to do with size. They could be as big as a house or as small as a mouse.

-Bryan

I was extremely confused because no-where in the rulebook is it mentioned that boulders are LCO. I think my confusion stemmed from the way the specific text about boulders is written in the new Weapon Construction Guidelines thread, specifically calling out in multiple places boulders and clearing up rules exceptions. I was especially confused because I have seen boulders "transfer" since they are in the rulebook (and being carted around by golems), but you are saying above they are LCO. This didn't make sense to me. As such, if editting is possible, I recommend revising the below:

Chapters may rule that some specific Thrown weapons, called Boulders, may only be lifted by creatures with Superhuman Strength and the skill Thrown Weapon.

It might read better if it is written as:

Thrown Weapon tags marked as Boulders may only be lifted by creatures with Superhuman Strength and may only throw them if they also have the skill Thrown Weapon.

That removes any ambiguity in the statement/rule and keeps it consistent with ARB v1.1 page 73 (under Superhuman Strength) and page 80 (under Shields). Just some feedback before it is put into the rulebook.

The former makes it seem like it is up to the Chapter whether or not a boulder/thrown weapon requires Superhuman Strength where-as the latter is a hard rule that boulder = requires Superhuman Strength; and since it is in the rulebook Plot would not need to make an announcement before game on. If the chapter wants to make a boulder light enough for a normal PC they have their own LCO Plot Effects they can place on them.

P.S. Sorry about being such a butt about this. I just want to make sure there aren't any inconsistencies. If the intent is for boulders to now be LCO I would recommend putting that in the new guidelines.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

While we're altering the weapon construction rules, can we take out the following:

P.149, Weapons: "Magic weapons are covered with white duct tape or white cloth. Magic weapons are thus easily identifiable by anyone looking at them and are treated as magic items. They are the property of the game."

P.122, Magic Blade: "White duct tape does not have to be taped on this temporarily magical weapon."

 

[Polare]

All of those suggestions sound great as new things to submit via your chapter owner for future changes

-Bryan

 

[Polare]

OK, for this event we will indeed go ahead with allowing either the old or the new definition for this event (i.e. someone with a 34" sword can "choose" what to call it for this event) due to the limited time before the event that the rules change came out. For future events, we will be enforcing the change to weapon length.

-Bryan Gregory
Alliance Seattle Head of Rules