[.11] Weapon Shield

Discussion in '{Archived} Alliance Rules 2.0 Playtesting' started by Feldor, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Feldor

    Feldor Scholar

    With the changes to how "Prepare to Die" skills work and the decrease in static damage, the value of Weapon Shield (formerly Magic Armor) has decreased dramatically. My suggestion is to make "Weapon Shield" be a smart defense, and either put it at 8th level opposite "Reflect Spell", "Purify" and "Dispel"; or put it at 7th level which could really use another spell. It'd reduce the 2nd level spell bloat, and give us more interesting choices at the top end.

    count of spells per level:
       C  E   
    1: 4  3*   
    2: 5  4   
    3: 4  4* 
    4: 4  5   
    5: 4  4   
    6: 3  4*   
    7: 2  4*   
    8: 3  3   
    9: 4  4 
           * - contains an earth spell that only affect undead
    (As an aside, the old "Magic Armor" was easily the equivalent of 5th level spell in 1.3; so its power being decreased is entirely reasonable.)
    DiscOH likes this.
  2. Tantarus

    Tantarus Squire

    Renner and Ryan W like this.
  3. DiscOH

    DiscOH Artisan

    Weapon shield is garbage right now

    ubiquitous42, PirateFox and Muir like this.
  4. SkollWolfrun

    SkollWolfrun Squire

    I disagree. No spell cast defenses should be changed to a smart defense.
    MaxIrons, Bruvah M., Draven and 2 others like this.
  5. Feldor

    Feldor Scholar

    That's fair. One of the valid concerns with this proposal is it then becomes craftable. We do allow defenses via high magic, but those tend to be self-only.

    What would you think of it being a dumb defense, but having it be something like "Triggers on the first hit over 20 damage"? Its not a smart defense, but it keeps it from being eaten up by 2's.
  6. SkollWolfrun

    SkollWolfrun Squire

    Still not a fan because it would be the only spell with this caveat. If you make one spell have some special caveat, make them all have their own caveat.
    Tantarus likes this.
  7. Draven

    Draven Count Seattle Staff Marshal

    I’m fine with a 9th level smart weapon defense, but anything lower than that would be horribly unbalanced.
  8. ubiquitous42

    ubiquitous42 Newbie

    Implementation details aside, I agree with the assertion that Weapon Shield is an unattractive memorization option at 2nd level. As it stands, it's basically only ever going to save you from around 5 damage, and we should remember that Bless and Shield were such unattractive options that they got removed from the game. Even Mend Armor, which is currently believed to be weak for its level, seems better than Weapon Shield. During both of the 2.0 games I've participated in, I've always had a Weapon Shield active before combat, and the highest swing it's saved me from was a 4.
    Azath, DiscOH and Inaryn like this.
  9. Draven

    Draven Count Seattle Staff Marshal

    I agree that Weapon Shield is pretty bad outside of a niche Intercept combo (a polearm backline fighter could actually make decent use of it).

    Ideally, I’d like it to be more like a boosted Shield spell, adding something like 10 points of temporary Armor.
  10. Mobius

    Mobius Squire

    ¿What if the Weapon Shield was set it up like the Lesser and Greater Storm spells with multiple charges which could be meted out at casting? One dumb defense against the next swing is paltry, but ¿five? from a single casting seems more meaningful. It could be used to give out a thin bubble across a large group or a dedicated scholar could backpack a few front-liner. It would give the spell some spine without 'roiding it out for the level.

    Weapon Shield would still be a standard dumb defense in an established lane, so we wouldn't need to monkey with the underlying mechanic, introduce a new concept, or try to resurrect a spell (Shield/Bless) already removed. The Storm mechanic rebuild has received a lot of praise, ¿why not capitalize on its success?
  11. MaxIrons

    MaxIrons Squire Seattle Staff Oregon Staff Marshal

    So, counterpoint.

    If I'd bothered with a weapon shield last event a player would not have resurrected. I knew weapon strike Corrupt was out there, but was of the same thoughts of low utility of WS. The crux of it is that it's now something you carry once you find out something has the potential for hard strikes instead of going around with it on all the time. It's situationally very good, but not as overpowering as it was in 1.3 due to PTD skills.
  12. Inaryn

    Inaryn Knight Marshal

    What if Weapon Shield was a dumb defense against the next Weapon Strike effect?
  13. Bruvah M.

    Bruvah M. Newbie

    Excellent idea, maybe add a clause to include assassinate, slay and other similar effects?
  14. Tantarus

    Tantarus Squire

    This will just force npcs to add one more slay or whatever to mobs so they have any hope of landing it on a PC.
  15. Feldor

    Feldor Scholar

    The problem is slay is impossible to differentiate from just a really strong swing - the calls are same, just the damage number varies. And when I suggested having a minimum threshold to trigger, folks did not think this was a great design because it would be unique to this effect.

    I think by this logic, we should not allow any defensive abilities in game (especially smart defenses). :)
    Gilwing and Bruvah M. like this.
  16. Tantarus

    Tantarus Squire

    Fair enough, but I was more referencing defense bloat. Adding another smart defense that anyone can have put on them, just makes it worse. I just dont see the gain in making it harder for npcs to interact with pcs via combat. If anything I think there should be less.
  17. Inaryn

    Inaryn Knight Marshal

    Making weapon shield a dumb defense against the next weapon strike would make it useful, but still very niche. You wouldn't memorize it over some of the other things at the same level, but you wouldn't turn your nose up at it either.
  18. Tantarus

    Tantarus Squire

    That seems pretty solid to me, a magic armor that always stops a relevant attack. Forcing double taps of strikes. Npcs will have it too:/
  19. Ken

    Ken Artisan Alliance Logistics

    Maybe rename: Strike Shield?
    Feldor likes this.
  20. Cedric

    Cedric Rogue Marshal

    Weapon Shield in my opinion often times benefits good OOG fighters. I drink a potion and go out to fight NPCs and my shield often times stays up for a bit if I fight defensively. NPCs so far in the two playtest often times use their weapon strikes early in a fight. Most of the time I didn't need to blow an evade because I had a weapon shield up every fight.

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