San Francisco Economy

DiscOH

Artisan
I'm a potential new player interested in testing theories of market forces in person. But I'm not sure what avenues make the most sense given the state of your economy.

I've heard a lot of locations (and honestly most persistent multiplayer RPGs) end up with a huge amount of hoarded gold by players which stunts any sort of personal wealth production outside of "find things rich people will pay for".

What would you say the supply / demand division looks like in SF? Is it worth the investment to generate silver as opposed to craftable items ever? Or is the amount of existing wealth too damn high?

Is it more economic for players to hack and slash their way to wealth than it is to hone their art of basket weaving?

Things I've heard about Alliance:
Trap crafting is generally a wasted stat (SF has custom lock crafting rules to help with this I think?)
Potion crafting is generally low demand because of casters being everywhere
Armor crafting ends up being made obsolete by arcane armor
Arrows are one of the only consistently high demand craftable items
End game players have little to spend their vast wealth on
 
It always depends on where you are and what they need at that chapter.
Traps are more used in other locations.
Potions are always good to have, cause while there might be a caster, being self-sufficient or being able to get the caster up, is great. Same for scrolls.
Armor is not really made obsolete by arcane armor, but more by the changes to the rules that happened a while back, and any magic effect placed on it makes it immune to shatter (same for weapons).
Arrows are always in need, but only a few people really need them.
Magic items, formal scrolls, catalysts, other things provided by plot - that's what will drain coin. Purchasing a building, providing for expenses of others, creating a trade route - there are plenty of ways to use the coin for those that want to do so. Others want to horde and swim in the shiney
 
Food. Food and drink are the king and queen of bringing in coin.
 
I can't find anything in the rule book (version 1.3) about durability riders on all enchantments. Is there a newer rule system than 1.3 or is this another custom SF rule set?

What sort of income per game do people tend to bring in? Obviously this is going to vary hugely by level, but I'm trying to get a sense for the cash value of player hours.

A lot of locations seem have an NPC merchant's guild that sells things. How is that handled in SF?
 
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Any enchantment on an item that lasts for a duration instead of evers makes the item immune to shatter and destroy for the duration of the enchantment. That is not a local rule. That is, in fact, how rituals work alliance wide.


Income varies based on setting, character, player, and of course luck. I can bring in nothing, even lose money at any given game as my highbie... and sometimes I come home with 20+ gold or something else worthwhile. Typically, I have no issue spending capitol, especially production. That's rather what it's there for and I actually don't understand hoarding it.

My hobling... makes a lot of coin without leaving the tavern. She makes and sells potions, scrolls, and alchemy, and that probably accounts for 2/5 of the money she brings in. The other 3/5 is from kitchen. Make no bones about it though... I am working my *ahem* sideburns off for that 3/5 of the total. Occasionally I get a little extra boost from the pouches I make and sell.
 
IG economics are super interesting, but my experience is that trying to enforce any of the reasonable logical rules on it IG *does not work well.* For example, in the real world the majority of our income goes to housing. IG, for the most part unless you're doing something special, you will never have to pay coin for housing. In fact, the idea of having to keep track of and pay IG 'rent' isn't appealing to most players. In addition, IG people want to get something in return for their money- paying out for between game 'rent' would feel like a loss since you aren't experiencing the benefits of that payout.

I'd say that the majority of coin that crosses hands between players is for ritual scrolls and food (and other amenities). The economy guides in the rulebook break down when confronted with real world goods, in our chapter. I believe a horse in the rulebook costs 3 gold, but some of our players sell energy drinks for a full gold each. Woah! A horse for 3 Rockstars?? Incredible!

To go one by one:
Trap crafting is generally a wasted stat (SF has custom lock crafting rules to help with this I think?): I rarely see traps set up by PC's in game here, but I know some of them do. I think the lock crafting rules you're referring to are that we use knotted ropes to represent locks in our chapter because of OOG laws about owning and carrying lockpicking sets, which other states don't have (The Denver chapter uses actual (though simple) locks which have to actually be picked).
Potion crafting is generally low demand because of casters being everywhere: Definitely not true! There is almost always demand for reasonably priced potions and alchemy, *especially* if you have a clear and easy to understand price list!
Armor crafting ends up being made obsolete by arcane armor: Kinda! Not everyone in our chapter has an arcane armor, and a number of characters have IG reasons to refuse to wear arcane armor! However, I very, very rarely see armor shattered or destroyed, so there's rarely need to buy new sets. Blacksmithing in general is a reasonably helpful skill, since arrows are constantly needed.
Arrows are one of the only consistently high demand craftable items: When you think about it in terms of ratios, an archer can go through 50 arrows in a fight easily. I've never seen a fight where one person goes through 50 potions. So in terms of sheer volume, you are correct. There is sincerely use for potionmakers though.
End game players have little to spend their vast wealth on: Depends on the player, but this can certainly be true for long chunks of time- and then there will be something we'll need several hundred gold for and then they all pony up! I'm not endgame even a little bit, but my experience with watching wealthy characters is that instead of consistent small transactions (a few gold here and there) there's significantly larger (hundreds of gold) transactions, but much more irregularly paced and only every once in a while. Our game also has (especially Maelstrom!) unusual or atypical things that can eat a lot of gold really fast.

I studied economics and while IG economies make sense when combined with the OOG realities if they are only taken from an IG perspective they make zero actual sense (which is why you'll never meet anyone with OCS economist- they've all gone insane years ago from the Lovecraftian mystery!)

If your goal is to make piles of IG dough, selling OOG goods (food, drinks, services, even costuming bits) is the best way to do it. Doing so will take up a lot of your time, though, and presumably a certain amount of OOG money. Personally, I've found I accumulate enough wealth to continue just by playing the game and participating in the storyline- which is what I come to the game for!

(or you can get an IG sugar momma, cough cough)

What sort of income per game do people tend to bring in? Obviously this is going to vary hugely by level, but I'm trying to get a sense for the cash value of player hours.

A lot of locations seem have an NPC merchant's guild that sells things. How is that handled in SF?
1. Definitely depends on the player, their character's goals, how many OCS levels they have, and their overall level. My character doesn't like fussing with money, so (with heavy fluctuations) I make a profit (so after I've bought things I want to buy at games) of about one gold per game I attend (but some individual games I lose a lot of coin, some games I gain a lot of coin).
2. We have two unique campaigns, Maelstrom and Enerret. Each location has IG roleplayed economy methods based on the IG location. Depending on our location in Enerret, there's usually some form of a merchant's guild or at least a market. Maelstrom is more complicated since it's post-apoc, but in the long run that's an IG roleplay question rather than an OOG logistical question for our chapter.
 
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That's extremely helpful information.

I definitely agree that an rpg is going to have different spending tends than the real world, just like physics isn't going to be perfectly represented. The delight of a game is being able to explore the miming of real life without the complications that go along with it.

I keep hearing about two different campaigns, Are they linked? Or do you have to make sperate characters for each?
 
You don't have to make separate characters and they aren't linked. We just have two different campaign settings so that we can have two different flavors of story.
 
When you visit other chapters your character walks through mysterious banks of mist which transport them to other lands. Our chapter just happens to have one of those mysterious banks of mist so you can visit another land while remaining in the same chapter.

If your character is new though, you'll have to decide which campaign you want it to be natively from, and that would be a question for you to decide with the help of/approval of the plot team of that campaign.
 
Who would I contact about validating character designs / backstories? I didn't realize that each campaign was a "parallel dimension". That's fascinating and also seems highly convenient as far as not needing to coordinate nationwide for alliance storytelling.

And is there a place to read basic "the world as we know it" overviews for the two campaigns? Or is this esoteric in game knowledge that has to be earned?
 
Enerret staff: EnerretPlot@gmail.com

Maelstrom staff: MaelstromPlot@gmail.com

If these email addresses look different from other ones you see around, don't worry- I promise these are the correct email addresses, there was just an issue with the old email boxes. If you have a character concept and aren't sure which campaign you think it would fit in, cc both plot teams on the email and they can figure it out for you!

When you are ready to build the stats (not the backstory) for your character, you email logistics logisticsasf@gmail.com and they will help you get that together.

There's some information about Enerret here:
https://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/brimms-watch-races-at-a-glance.27985/

There is some information about Maelstrom here (but this document is *in game* so your character won't know about it until you've had the chance to read it IG. Since it's written by a player (me) it also may be inaccurate, but it can give you an idea if you want your character to be from there):
https://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/maelstrom-primer-safe.34250/

There's also some info about both campaigns on the SF chapter's website (ignore where it says Maelstrom is invite-only, it isn't):
http://alliancesf.net/

However, when you email the staffs they will give you documents that contain information about the land, and you can use those to work from there. It's best to have a vague idea of what you want to do, first.
Personally I always recommend NPCing your first game, just so you can get a feeling for the flavor of the game and then when you make your character you'll have an easier time making something that will fit into the already existing world!
 
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