[0.9] Rogues - Changes to backstab damage and archery

[mikestrauss]

This would have the potential to make Rogues very good against Fighters, which they are not supposed to be. I feel like it would be a balance nightmare and you'd put even more pressure on Fighters of every level range to buy defenses against these attacks (assuming they are weapon delivery only and not Elemental or Poison delivery, which would pretty much put the last nail in the Fighter coffin) to even hope to start having a chance against Rogues.

I disagree. Having abilities that can give a rogue a fighting chance against a fighter once or twice a day does not even vaguely conflate with "put the last nail in the fighter coffin".

Assume a fighter and a rogue are going toe-to-toe. If neither side is willing to use powerful blows, the fighter wins by a far margin (assuming approximately equal level and OOG skill).

If both sides are willing to use powerful blows, the fighter powerful blows are actually more effective. Both disarm and shatter only need to hit the weapon, rather than the body in order to take effect. Parry and dodge are both effectively equally useful here, because they both block powerful blows. Every single fighter powerful blow is effective against rogues (disarm, shatter, slay, eviscerate, stun limb). However, only about 3.5 of the rogue powerful blows are useful against a fighter. Silence is basically meaningless and destruction doesn't have a lot of value if the rogue is only swing 2 from the front. Heck, unless the opponent is swinging for 6 damage or less, even weakness doesn't fully balance the scales (knocking the fighter down to the same damage as the rogue doesn't matter much if the fighter still has more body/armor).

And the above analysis doesn't take into account that fighters are significantly more likely to wield shields than rogues, making it much harder for rogues to land a powerful blow that for the fighter.

Sorry, I'm not following. What would necessitate the removal of Stun Limb for Fighters? (I would most definitely be against that. It's one of our most flexible and cheaper take-out effects that affects pretty much everything.)

I fully agree with this sentiment. I can't see why anything in my proposal should necessitate the removal of stun limb as a skill. I agree that it should be made fighter primary (thus requiring only fighter skills to purchase and costing an arm and a leg [pun intended] for rogues), but not that it should be removed.

-MS

 

[Zymm]

I'll just throw this in there after roguing in a chapter with a local flurry rule - try and stay behind someone when all you get is 3 swings.

Also 3:1 or 2:1 ratios... can I borrow your time machine? I've got some bets I'd like to place.

 

[mikestrauss]

I was being generous. I was also assuming that a handful of PCs jump fence or sit out on most wave battles (except usually the last one) while most NPCs participate.

-MS