[0.9] Why is Ritual Use different for each class?

Why does a scholar get twice as many rituals as a fighter?

  • balance

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • flavor

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • other

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • this should be changed

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Total voters
    19
S

Shades

Newbie
The Rule
"Rituals which are powered daily must be “activated” through use of a new ability, Ritual Use. This replaces any previous Skill or Spell expenditure that was required as part of the Ritual; now, when using one of these Rituals, the only thing you spend is the Ritual Use point and the Magic Item charge. For example, Spell Parry no longer requires that a Parry be expended as part of using the Ritual (though you must still know the Parry skill), and Counterspell no longer requires that a spell be expended (though you must still have the matching spell in memory). Note that Rituals with skill prerequisites require that the character has currently spent Build Points on that skill or has been granted it through a Paragon Path (see below).


Similarly, High Magic which characters choose when to activate requires Ritual Use points just like these sorts of Magic Items. However, these High Magic abilities are no longer tied to a certain number of 9th level spells or specific spells in memory, giving them much more flexibility. These players may now spend High Magic on many more items, weighing which ones to use throughout the day against their Magic Item activations.


Characters gain Ritual Use points as they gain experience, representing their growing ability to master the use of these potent and potentially dangerous powers. Everyone starts with 1 Ritual Use point per day, with additional uses gained at the following rates by class:


Fighter: 1 Ritual Use every 15 XP [20 uses at 310 total XP]

Scout: 1 Ritual Use every 13 XP [22 uses at 310 total XP]

Rogue: 1 Ritual Use every 11 XP [26 uses at 310 total XP]

Spellsword: 1 Ritual Use every 10 XP [29 uses at 310 total XP]

Adept: 1 Ritual Use every 9 XP [32 uses at 310 total XP]

Artisan: 1 Ritual Use every 8 XP [35 uses at 310 total XP]

Scholar: 1 Ritual Use every 7 XP [41 uses at 310 total XP]


Passive, “always-on” Rituals do not require Ritual Use points. Rituals which are used to temporarily “store” abilities from other players similarly do not require Ritual Use points to activate. Some Rituals which now require a Ritual Use have gained a new prerequisite, especially those which previously required a certain skill expenditure."

My question is this: Why does a scholar get twice as many rituals as a fighter? Is it for balance, flavor, or some other reason?
 
I can't answer this for certain, but I have a guess.

I suspect the reason is because the basic idea is that the scholar classes are the classes that are more likely to be spending XP in order to actually make magic items in the first place. It only seems fair that the class that actually invested XP in order to make the items is the one that benefits the most from it (this lesson probably should be adapted for production items, too).

The above said, I would not be adverse to magic item charges being static for all classes + some ratio based on formal levels to better represent the above (or maybe just being able to substitute high magic for magic item charges).

-MS
 
I figured it was flavor, since they are more well trained with magic.
 
A different, but related question is, why does the ability to use magic items scale to one's level, especially given that one of the stated goals of the new rules was to reduce the gap between low and high level characters?
 
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@MondayMcGee one of the things to remember is that, I believe, there are now around 40 MI rits in 2.0. I would have to recheck my numbers, but around 20+ do not require RUs. The others do. (I think the list is in the playtest pack). So for most "low level" players it will not be an issue. For most players actually, it should not be an issue. One of the things players should be testing in their builds is how many MIs they could have (swapping out your old MIs) or want to have and see if their RUs will match their MI needs.

As for why is scales, HM is included as their effects mimic a Ritual "type thing" so it was deemed thematic by ARC and they have an RU cost to activate along with spending HM to get them in the first place. So it is both a "flavour" and a "balance" thing. So I voted "other".

I hope that helps!
 
@mythic, thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I understand. For the approximately half of the available rituals that do require RUs, a low-level character can make much less use of that magic item than can a high-level one. I'm a "low-level" player and it certainly feels like an issue to me. It limits my ability to use those magic items to increase my power level relative to those around me, to somewhat bridge that frustrating gap in ability. I'm also concerned that it could mean that higher-level characters will have even more of a monopoly on magic items than they already do, because of the perception that an item would be "wasted" if it doesn't go to the person with more Ritual Uses.

Again, this seems like a choice that conflicts with the design goal of reducing the gaps between the "haves" and the "have nots".
 
Understandable. Totally understandable. The design behind it (and you need to clarify with ARC, cause I'm not 100% certain) is that as you go up, the RUs go up and you should be covered. Again,check out the MIs that need RUs and see if they are ones you would use. Then see how many times etc. It is a bit of a math game at that point as needs of each player will vary greatly. But that should help you figure out if there are enough RUs or not. If the numbers are "close" to what you need, then we are pretty much where we would want to be. If they are grossly inadequate then that is where we can adjust.

Now, again, this is just the first "kick at the cat" for numbers. If players think they are too low (and can help us out with some numbers) then it will be adjusted. I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer than that. Hope that helps! This is where playtesting really comes into building the system.
 
One thing to keep in mind re: ritual use is that most items with this cost are also charges per day. A sword with a single Spell Parry doesn't let someone use 20 RU charges to spell Parry 20 times a day. Higher level characters can use more overall items per day, but they don't use any items "better."
 
Thank you, I had indeed missed that aspect.

That makes it sting a bit less, but I still don't see why usage has to be tied to level (or class, to keep the thread on its original topic) at all. What problem is this change attempting to solve?
 
Again, I am only guessing, but I suspect part of it has to do with helping staff scale. As of right now, there is no way for plot teams to even estimate how many magic items a character might have, and as you probably understand, number of magic items significantly affects combat effectiveness.

This system puts a hard cap on one-shot style magic items. Players can always have fewer, but it is certain even if they have more than the cap, they can't use more than the cap. This makes estimating the effect of magic items on scaling a little bit easier (potentially a lot easier).

-MS
 
MondayMcGee said:
What problem is this change attempting to solve?
Click to expand...

It effectively puts a cap on the number of rituals a single character can carry, which in 1.3 is a huge problem as it isn't uncommon for single character to have 50+ rituals "in their pocket", some have even more than that (70-80+), this helps mitigate that.
 
Is there any particular reasoning for why a seemingly complicated "Ritual use Charge System" rather than a simple ritual-cap? Whether by class, level, etc., this additional system while trying to streamline things seems contradictory.
 
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