A Healer's Dilemma

O

OrcFighterFTW

Spellsword
I play a Barbarian Earth Scholar, currently 6th level, and I have up to the 4th tier of earth magic. At this point, I am questioning what is the most helpful route to roleplay an effective healer who does not like guilds/political organizations and would therefore not be likely to join an Earth Magic Guild. The major question is: Should I use my build points from now until the end of next season to fill out my spell obelisk to one level 9 and go to formals from there ("wandering mystic" style), or is it more helpful to get to at least journeyman in Create Potions and stockpile an arsenal of healing products ("combat medic" style)?

More info that might be helpful to know:
I'm not much of a melee fighter, although I have a dagger for defensive purposes. I use a crossbow for damage over the heads of the front line, along with curses to weaken enemies. Otherwise, I repair armor/heal as necessary in the back of the fight. I enjoy this role for combat mods and would like my style to enhance this.

Currently, I'm leaning toward the Create Potion "combat medic" style of character, but I'm wondering what more experienced players have to say about this or share their experiences.
 
The one thing I have to say is formal level 5, rebirth. Nothing makes you, as a healer, more powerful than knowing at 4:59 you get to get back up and maybe save one or two others.

I would honestly go a full 4 column and 5 formals, then maybe think about potion making to back up my tree from the sounds of your play-style. Perhaps even some alchemy to buff your damage/increase your debilitation factor.

The problem with the crafting skills as a healer is making sure you get enough money incoming to support them.
 
Build for build, you will get more effects spending build on spells than you will on create potion.

The spells go away at the end of the day and the potions do not... but the spells are free.
 
OrcFighterFTW said:
I play a Barbarian Earth Scholar, currently 6th level, and I have up to the 4th tier of earth magic. At this point, I am questioning what is the most helpful route to roleplay an effective healer who does not like guilds/political organizations and would therefore not be likely to join an Earth Magic Guild. The major question is: Should I use my build points from now until the end of next season to fill out my spell obelisk to one level 9 and go to formals from there ("wandering mystic" style), or is it more helpful to get to at least journeyman in Create Potions and stockpile an arsenal of healing products ("combat medic" style)?

More info that might be helpful to know:
I'm not much of a melee fighter, although I have a dagger for defensive purposes. I use a crossbow for damage over the heads of the front line, along with curses to weaken enemies. Otherwise, I repair armor/heal as necessary in the back of the fight. I enjoy this role for combat mods and would like my style to enhance this.

Currently, I'm leaning toward the Create Potion "combat medic" style of character, but I'm wondering what more experienced players have to say about this or share their experiences.
Click to expand...

Do you run with a team or are solo? Those make a difference in what you choose.
 
My general experience as a long term player is that production skills, unless you commit to them a large chunk of build, do not work out as well as you hope, the lone exception to this being alchemy (three levels giving you the ability to use gasses). Build spent on your primary other focus (fighting, casting, healing) will enable you to kill more stuff, giving you more loot and coin with which to buy those potions you want to have around and making you just as effective as though you'd made them yourself.

That being said, if you feel like to be true to your character you'd spend your winter months brewing up potions for the coming adventure season, then I'm ALWAYS about spending build to make a character more like how you want them to be.
 
the problem with potion making as stated by others is that you need money to make it work. stockpiling potions, you can go through them all on a single mod. with production skills you have to make enough profit to give people what they want at good enough prices to make sure you can get what you want. typically blowing spells on healing is a lot less painful than blowing money on healing. i have gone through 10 cure lights that cost me a gold total in a single mod while getting only a couple silver out of that mod, giving out the stuff for free nets you a hell of a loss and not a lot of gratitude. at least that's the money standpoint of it. you have to sell potions to be able to give them out.

its the starting out that's sucky, once you can get some good repeat costumers, then you can actually create a stockpile so that losing 10-15 potions is something that can be recouped instead of there goes your whole net worth
 
First, to answer an earlier post, I do adventure with a small group consisting of an alchemist, a celestial caster, and a melee weapon earth caster. It is a pretty balanced group so far, although a bit squishy at times.

Second, thanks for the responses so far and more are certainly welcome! And now I have follow up questions! Yay!

1) It appears that creating potions is almost a guarantee for net lost funds, but if this could be offset by 1 level of a Craftsmen skill for every 2 levels of Create Potion (or more to compensate for batching), and this could also potentially create more role play opportunities using those CM skills, how often does this style of healing actually work out in the game (i.e. translate effectively from my idea here to the actual game in practice)?

[Side note: It appears to be similar build for CM/Create Potion and a spell obelisk to one level nine (filling a full 4-column will take some more time than one season) So the issue of build cost is effectively a non-issue, as I'd spend similar build either way.]

2) The benefit to potions is that they do not expire at the end of the day as spells do, and can therefore put away for a rainy day or when needed (Formals like Spellstore is are out of my league at this point so I'm sticking to basic production and skills). However, for this to be effective and have the potions ready at a moment's notice, what are the best ways to carry multiple potions? Pictures would be very helpful for this!

3) And now to the other side of the coin, if I were to go the straight up earth caster/formalist route, what survival strategies work best for when I am out of spells, which could potentially be after only a couple mods (worst case scenario of course)? Are there other really helpful skills I should have along with spells to lessen the impact of being a spell-less caster?

Thanks again for your responses! :)
 
1) Really only build viable if you're going MWE, and then only the teeniest maybe. You're otherwise gobbling build that could be spent on combat skills that get you more gold.
2) Get a large, loose bag and put an Expanded Enchantment on it rendering it indestructible. You'll thank me after the first explosive trap you trip. I've seen some people with a shotgun shell bandolier that have vials that tuck in perfectly, but that's asking to be exploded an you'll then be a very, very sad panda.
3) Ration your spells to the very end. Right before logistics, find someone (hopefully on your team) with an Earth aspect Spell Store and fill it up. Also, learn to run and hide.

If you decide to become a potion brewer, I recommend taking only 10 ranks so you get the Journeyman discount, then buy a workshop in the town your character is in most often. You'll be able to make 100 production of potions for only 8 silver, can still batch if you need more, and you have minimal build investment while getting max returns.
 
If you go straight up earth caster/formalist your best best to increase your survivability is to buy shield and one handed edged and either fight sword and board or block shield and board (if you do it right people will cry and accuse you of turtling :D).
 
tieran said:
If you go straight up earth caster/formalist your best best to increase your survivability is to buy shield and one handed edged and either fight sword and board or block shield and board (if you do it right people will cry and accuse you of turtling :D).
Click to expand...
For extra salty tears, go staff and shield. Pure defense and possibly THE ULTIMATE STANCE. :lol:
 
No, Joseph.

Stop trying to give people bad advice.

Don't make me hit you with a newspaper.
 
As someone who wasn't quite sure what to do with their character and then was convinced IG to go crazy earth formals, I highly suggest you FIRST get a 4 column. Now yes, with rebirth and such, getting 5 ranks isn't a bad idea, but I will tell you, you will be much happier if you get more spells before more formal. I had my bare min to get formal for almost 2 years before I started getting spells again and was pretty close to useless on the field for that time (ie, I'd run out of spells so quickly/have to conserve them so I wouldn't). This is especially true if you're going to be weaponless.

The same logic should hold true if you're going craftsman/potion maker. Once you kick you're spells, you're done. Sure, you have potions you can shove down someone's throat, but that is still very limited and everytime you do it, it's costing money, whereas the more spells you have, the more free healing you have. The other downside to potions compared to spells is you can't use a potion from a distance. (Think that 59 second CL from 20 feet away).

The other thing you will find if you go either route is if you are someone that wants to go on mods, you'll find yourself going on less. You'll keep getting higher level, but because of the formals/craftsman/potions you won't be able to back up your level and start bringing death that you can't help your friends out of. Before anyone says "Levels are OOG" well, IG so many people know that Sun brings death with her if she goes on a mod and has for 6+ years that she doesn't go on many anymore. You are too high level for low level mods and can't back up the healing for a high level mod (and trust me, a hand full of CL potions isn't going to help much if you're in trouble on a mod).
 
On the other hand, there's always the Recettear method.

For a small fee, you offer to supply the group with X amount of potions, of which you are quite good at making. Sign here for what you're taking along, please.

They pay for any they use (or destroy) or want to keep and return the rest at the end of their adventure.

You get a market for potions and money without the risk. They lower their risk of Not Living thanks to your spells-in-a-bottle.

Yayifications!
 
Another option to consider if you are intending to pick up potions as a way to just have more pick-em-up healing for multiple battles, pyramid your tree instead of columning it. Going from 9 firsts up to one ninth gives you 45 spells instead of 36 with a 4-column, and you spend 5 fewer build to get there. True, you have fewer Life spells, but you will have your healing pool much more spread out, and then can decide to either formal it up or spend the next 27 build topping out your pyramid to have your 4 9ths. Many will espouse the "get the Lifes fast!" and I'm not saying they are wrong, but if your goal is to be THEE Guy getting people up in combat all the time, pyramid.
 
What Jeff said.

Also, for those that want to templar it up... there's just something beautiful about walking into a fight with the Big Bad and burning thirteen magic armors against his entire PTD tree.
 
Having backpacked somebody using nothing but magic armors against a big nasty swinging death, I whole-heartedly agree with this statement.

I've sunk a bunch of build into potion making, and while it's gotten me some cool roleplay and in-game recognition, I'd rather have throw-able cure lights than drinkable ones. So for the forseeable future, all my build is going to be spent widening the base of my column for more of those pick-me-up's and "oh no you don'ts"

There's something to be said for the low level spell trumping the big bad. I've disarmed people and things being carried off by the big bad, spell shielded dragon magic and magic armored weapon strikes with obliterate carriers. Of course there's the cure light through traffic to get to downed friends... nothing there over 5th circle... all epic moments.
 
Sold! On the spell pyramid. :D Hooray for teamwork problem solving!

Question: If I already have 4 level ones, 4 level twos, and 3 level threes and two level fours (no fiver yet), can I add that additional level one to make it a pyramid rather than a column or am I already stuck in the column?
 
OrcFighterFTW said:
Sold! On the spell pyramid. :D Hooray for teamwork problem solving!

Question: If I already have 4 level ones, 4 level twos, and 3 level threes and two level fours (no fiver yet), can I add that additional level one to make it a pyramid rather than a column or am I already stuck in the column?
Click to expand...
you can pyramid it out, but you have to start at the bottom. buy a fifth "First level" spell, then a second; then a fifth "Second level" and so on. after you hit a four column, the spell-stack is 'stable', but any build-out has to be bottom heavy

so:
4
4
3
2

turns to:
5
4
3
2

to:
6
5
4
3

to:
6
5
4
3
1

and so on
 
Just felt like I should note that the previous post contains an invalid progression. 6-5-4-3 would not be a valid tree.

The easy way to deal with spell trees is to simply apply these rules:

Each level must have 1 less than the level below:
-unless-
If a level has 4 or more spells the level above may have 1 less OR equal number: (the column effect)
-and-
In just ONE place in the tree there may be a difference of 2 between consecutive levels: (necessary to build the tree)


There's never the possibility of having a difference of 3 between consecutive levels, such as
6
5 ** NOT A VALID TREE**
4
3
Nor can you have two separate differences of 2, such as
6
4 ** NOT A VALID TREE**
2
1

If you're starting with a tree with 4-4-3-2, you'll add a 1st and 5th level spell slot to arrive at a pyramid:
5
4
3
2
1
Note, that in this case the order is up to you for purchasing those two slots, as both 4-4-3-2-1 and 5-4-3-2 are valid.
At this point, you can just work your way up, adding 1 slot to each consecutive level to take you to
6
5
4
3
2
1
You do have slight bit of leeway when choosing which slots to add next, as for example, using the pyramid above, your next slot could be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, entirely up to you.

Have fun, pyramids are the way to go! (from a templar)
currently rocking a
6
5
4
2
1
 
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