Barbarians

Ragnarok

Ragnarok

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Alliance Rules
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On a similar note to the high orc thread and the future of the race I'd like to hear what people think about the future of the Barbarian (Oathsworn) race.

Keeping RP out of the equation I don't feel like barbarians are worth it as it stands. It is assumable that Barbarians will aquire more clear racial requirements but also more difficult to rep. (Similar to the gems of a Selunari) With many races loosing penalities like excluding weapon skills (elf, dwarf etc) or loosing double cost for R&W (Kyn, high orcs), instead being balenceed against the required reps for that race Barbarians appear to be loosing in the long run. What is to dissuade me from playing a kyn or a dwarf instead?

A mask for a kyn or beard for a dwarf are small prices to pay for mechanically superior races. If my reading is correct then dwarves have no racial disadvantages and kyn only have double cost for read magic whereas Barbarian has less effective racial advantages and greater racial disadvantages.

As it stands even though I love the RP I have centred around my Barbarian, I cannot bring myself to play this race unless the racials change for the better or I loose the double cost for R&W.

As it stands a kyn with resist element and resist binding or a dwarf are simply better options.

Thoughts? Agree disagree?
 
I agree to an extent. Although Kyn can wear a mask, all non-covered area of skin need make up or be covered. So although a majority of their face can be covered with a mask, they still need make up. I don't know if the Double R/W cost is such a deal breaker for the race. They do get resist element which is pretty amazing. Resist Fear is lackluster unless your plot team Hates Its Players (tm) and likes Terror.

I agree that Dwarves are a slightly better option, although beards are itchy (my real only problem with them :P).
 
If you're just looking at mechanical benefits, Kin are pretty much always going to be the better answer. I think you're underestimating the racial requirements of a Dwarf or a Wylderkin, though. Dwarf beards, to me at least, are one of the least comfortable, most cumbersome prosthetics. Good ones are expensive, cheap ones look awful, they hang on your face all day, and the fibers constantly get in your mouth or on your stuff. I might just be weird, but Dwarves are the one race I would never pick for a PC because of the prosthetic required. As for Kin, unless you have a full-face mask, Wylderkin can't (or at least shouldn't) be repped with just a mask. Full-face makeup, or a mask with makeup filling in the borders, is still a lot to deal with over a weekend. I should also mention that most Kin can't show bare skin even away from their face, so summer events get fairly uncomfortable.

Not that I've heard any rumors or anything, but I'd imagine that if Barbarians/Oathsworn get more solid racial requirements, they'll be about on par with what Selunari have to deal with. I'd wear something similar to face gems and avoid Celestial magic to get access to Resist Fear, Resist Elements, and extra body.
 
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Personally, I think you are underestimating how difficult it can be to wear a mask for an entire weekend (no breaks except sleeping and cleaning). I'd honestly rather go full makeup than full mask for a weekend, and I really dislike full makeup.

As for the comparison to Dwarves, I think it will depend on the makeup requirement that comes down the line. A beard is significantly more taxing to wear than ear tips or the Selunari's new forehead crystal (especially since you can wear it on a headband or with spirit gum). If the makeup decision is closer to beard annoyance, than you make a good point. If it is closer to forehead crystal annoyance, then I think the race is balanced well. And that, I think, is why it is too early to judge one way or another.

However, I will point out something that I have said for years. Double cost for Read and Write is not a penalty for a LOT of character builds. If a skill costs double, it only matters if you actually ever intended to take it. If you plan to skip it, you have lost nothing. Comparatively, -1 body per 10 body will affect every single character, regardless of build. It will affect some more than others, but it changes the character sheet universally. Thus, I have difficulty accepting that it is so awful when it basically amounts to a 3 build penalty or a 0 build penalty in the majority of case.

-MS

P.S. - On the point of makeup / prosthetics - Every player has different thresholds of tolerance here, but there are definitely a lot of players that simply refuse to play races purely due to these requirements. I have seen plenty of players who limited themselves to Gypsies, Barbarians, and Humans, specifically to avoid makeup, spirit gum, or fake facial hair. Personally, I have only played an Elf and Human PC, and there are few others I'd even consider (probably Selunari, MWE, and maybe the new Oathsworn), because I don't have high tolerance for makeup or prosthetics. The point I am trying to make here is that even if your tolerance is high, you need to take all players into account.
 
mikestrauss said:
P.S. - On the point of makeup / prosthetics - Every player has different thresholds of tolerance here, but there are definitely a lot of players that simply refuse to play races purely due to these requirements.
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. I did fail to take that into consideration.

I suppose my main argument here is why is it easier for Timmy the pig kyn to read than the Barbarian down the street. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
It really, really isn't a small price to pay. I do a full mask for my hawk-kin, for example, and I absolutely do not have the personal tolerance to play him outside of the deep winter simply because of how hot and stifling that mask can be after a while.

That said, read/write as a skill should go away anyway. It doesn't really add anything to the game, and forgetting how to read is one of the harder bits of metagaming we'll ask of a player.
 
Muir said:
That said, read/write as a skill should go away anyway. It doesn't really add anything to the game, and forgetting how to read is one of the harder bits of metagaming we'll ask of a player.
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I have to disagree. When I first started checking out the rules, back in the NERO days, the read write skill was the thing that most impressed me about the rules of character design. It made me realize that the game designers intended you to step outside of your normal bubble of personal expectations and not take things like that for granted.

I get that a lot of people just take it and maybe mumble to themselves about wasting the build, but I like that it is a conscious choice you have to make.

If I have any gripe about it, it makes it slightly more difficult to play a starting character from an educated background, but that can easily be resolved with some gobbies and a few back blankets.
 
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Muir said:
That said, read/write as a skill should go away anyway. It doesn't really add anything to the game, and forgetting how to read is one of the harder bits of metagaming we'll ask of a player.
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Uh. It's one of the easiest things I've ever done in any game I've played that my character didn't know how to read.
 
Draven said:
Uh. It's one of the easiest things I've ever done in any game I've played that my character didn't know how to read.
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There's no need to be that dismissive about it. I finally picked up Read/Write on my fighter after 3 or 4 years because I was tired of pretending not to understand things right in front of my face. It's easy enough not to read a letter that someone hands you (just don't look at it in the first place) but there were at least a few times I ended up accidentally reading something I shouldn't have. I can't say the skill (or lack thereof) has ever really enriched my role-play experience.
 
See, I have had the opposite RP experience. Last event, one of the players wrote up a 7 page summary of some very important plot for players to read. There were several PCs that could not read that lead to a lot of RP in explaining the notes, recalling the tales of the PCs etc. So there are examples of it producing RP. Heck, watching the players make an Alphabet book with things like G is for Goblin and a "kids drawing" of a goblin and then having PCs learn to read was fantastic RP to watch and be part of.

In modern society it seems odd not to be able to read. Not so much in fantasy/medieval settings.
 
I think the real question is: does spending build on read/write make the RP of being illiterate stronger? I would argue that it does not. We don't spend build on the ability to cook, or sing, or draw, or have a back story, or an immeasurable number of other ways to contribute to RP. If the build cost for R/W was removed you could still play a character who cannot read. What's more, you could play that character learning to read over a span of time longer than the time between two events.
 
Muir said:
There's also the fact that R/W creates an unnecessary rules exception, in that it is a build-bought skill that isn't lost when under effects that remove game skills.
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There's...technically no reason this is true. While I never really thought of it, who's to say that while I'm Drained, I can R/W? Much like being under the influence can hinder perception, I don't see why people can't lose the ability to r/w while under such effects.
 
It is true, though - read the description of the Read and Write skill.

ARB 1.3 said:
Note that if you have this skill, you can still read even if you are prohibited from using "Game Abilities."
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Huh. Well, I suppose there's no reason someone couldn't propose a change to their owner.
 
Geeze. We have always played it as lose all skills. Including R/W. :confused:
 
mikestrauss said:
And somewhere in Alberta there is a mod team that is now thinking "Damnit! If only we had known then we wouldn't have wiped on that one stupid riddle module."

-MS
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Well, there will be next event! MUAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAA.....errr...uhm...nothing to see here...
 
mikestrauss said:
And somewhere in Alberta there is a mod team that is now thinking "Damnit! If only we had known then we wouldn't have wiped on that one stupid riddle module."

-MS
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Sounds like someone in Alberta needs to be talking to their staff about some adjudications on pulls. ;)
 
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