Bows and Spells and Armor . . Oh My

skeemodog

skeemodog

Newbie
OK,
I have a couple of semi-related questions.

First of all, is a bow user allowed to cast spells and if so is it as logistically difficult as I am imagining it to be.

Second, what would be considered appropriate armor for a spellcaster? Leather bracers, greaves, chestplates etc. or should they just be considered cloak-and-pajama wearing purveyors of hurt.

I am leaning towards my PC being a spellcaster and I am also interested in making my own leather armor.

Thanks for your consideration.

IG
???

OOG
John
 
Bow users can absolutely cast spells and its a fairly easy thing to weave in with archery as a skill. (Both are thrown packets, and you can cast a spell while holding the bow, the only differnce is the incant and the lack of a ribbon on the packet.)

Obviously splitting your points between profs to increase your bow damage, and spell columns will be where you lose out on the deal.

Depending on your class you can wear any armor you'd like, the in game maximum rating you can have is determined by your class so if you had a fairly heavy suit, and you played a scholar you might not be able to get all the points you'd other wise be rated for.

That being said an Adept, or templar Bow user/caster wearing leather would likely be able to benefit from the full points the rep would offer.
 
I suspect someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but:

First--packets used for bows and those used for spells are different, so it shouldn't be a problem at all. As well, the words used prior to throwing either form of packet are different as well. Should be fine on that score.

Second--You're limited to the number of armor points you can wear, but not the type, I believe. While it may look funny for a Master Wizard to roam around in plate mail, it is conceivable. Personally, I wear leather for my scholar, as it affords some small number of armor points and the ability to move freely, which I admit is of more importance to me than how much damage I can take.

So spellcast away, and enjoy yer leathers!

:)
ChrisO
 
chriso said:
I suspect someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but:

First--packets used for bows and those used for spells are different, so it shouldn't be a problem at all. As well, the words used prior to throwing either form of packet are different as well. Should be fine on that score.

Second--You're limited to the number of armor points you can wear, but not the type, I believe. While it may look funny for a Master Wizard to roam around in plate mail, it is conceivable. Personally, I wear leather for my scholar, as it affords some small number of armor points and the ability to move freely, which I admit is of more importance to me than how much damage I can take.
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For the first item, you'll probably want to get one of the open pouchs so that you won't be a likely to make flub the of yanking out a spell packet instead of an arrow during a fight.

As for the second, seeing a Wizard going around casting lightning spells while in plate, would seem kinda tacky to me... :)
 
I play a scholar with a bow and it works out really well!

First, it gives you some additional "unlimited" damage (as long as you have arrows), and helps augment your spell casting.

Second, it is a damn good thing to block with when your meat sheild decides to die on you, especially if you have a max length bow.

Third, sometimes NPC's will see you throwing arrows and won't try and dodge/block them as they concentrate on defending against a meat shield swinging higher damage, at which point its nice to throw out some mystical friendliness which makes them into "smoking boots." :D

Also, if you have a *really* cool bow, you can affix scrolls to it and cast off them like a shield without carrying around a huge piece of foam.

As far as armor goes, I wear bracers and a gorget, each are worth 2 points of armor each, leaving me with 6 points of costuming for a max of 10 armor, which is all I really need. I try not to get up in the mob's grill as a general rule.

If you are feeling crazy, you can take florentine and weild both a bow and dagger/small weapon and get up in mob's grills too, heh.

In short, a caster with a bow is 1337!

Just my $0.02 :D
 
I'm curious as to who rated your armor, since a gorget doesn't actually cover any of the armor locations. Yes, both the head and the face sections say they run from the neck to the forehead, but anything that covers just neck is covering less than 1/3 of the total area you're trying to protect, and therefore shouldn't be getting any armor points allocated for it. If it had cheek pieces that extended upwards to cover part of the face and another flange that came up and covered most of the back of the head I could see it (hmmm I'm getting ideas just typing this *grin*), but otherwise I really don't think that's the way the rule is supposed to go. That's the way I have always ruled it and seen it ruled by other marshals anyway.
 
It was in the MN chapter. The new owner of South MN would have been the one doing the rating.
 
Actually I generally allow my armor marshalls to rate player's armor at games, this allows me to help run logistics check in and deal with the almost guarnteed random requests/issues that crop up.. That being said the item in question covers to the base of the skull and both shoulders, although I've never given it a real close look. This covers half the location for the head and half the requirement for 'upper arms'. So the question quickly becomes, do we point to the rule book and say 'no dice, not technically as listed' or do we look at the player and say 'thats a decent piece of armor, and it would definately afford some protection. Beyond that however with the bracers for two, one point for a gorget that very easily covers half the area on the back of the head, and one point for boots, this rating is likely to have been obtained though a combination of the above. I can also personally attest that Dured'hels costuming is very well put together and I'd be hard pressed to nit-pick and give him a 9 instead because the item in question covers only 2/5ths of the location....
 
Bear in mind, you're arguing with someone who thinks the current rules for armor are terrible and don't go nearly far enough to reward people for creativity in making up a cool look for themselves. I've argued long and hard over the fact that armor is based waaaay too much on OOG money spent on phys reps and waaay too little on what they achieve IG to get gear for their character. I've never personally cared for the location system and would much rather have things based on people going to blacksmiths IG and saying "Hey I got this chain vest, can you tighten up the weave on it for a few extra gold?" instead of "Hmmm, if you lengthen the sleves by three more inches I can let you get a tag that gives you one more point of armor". Also, arbitrary opinion is never a good way to establish a hard fact in anything, which is clearly demonstrated in this exchange right here ;) .
That being said, my (our) personal feelings on the matter don't change the fact of what the NATIONAL rules about how the game works changes. The book says that if armor doesn't cover at least half of the area it's trying to protect, then it gets reduced by one point from whatever materials it's made of.

"As far as armor goes, I wear bracers and a gorget, each are worth 2 points of armor each,...."

When I read this statement, with no visual of the pieces in question, that tells me someone misinterpreted the rules at some point, and once armor is rated it is not necessary to get it rated again with every new game. As I stated in my response, that would have to be a plate metal gorget that covered more than just the neck. You say it does, it also covers the back of the head, so great but that means it's more than just a simple gorget. If it were just a simple heavy collar, like I was envisioning, then as I said before, it really doesn't apply to either area. Yes, both the head and face locations start at the neck, but by the same token the forearm and the upper arm/shoulder both start at the elbow. If someone had just attached metal elbow cups to a tunic, I wouldn't give them any for it because it doesn't actually give protection to either location enough to qualify for either, let alone both.

Since the statement was being used to advise a new player on what to do for armor, I felt it a good idea to point out that most marshals will not give you armor points for a gorget, due to the rules for the system we have. Otherwise this same new person might go out and spend 50 bucks on ebay for an elaborately tooled leather gorget thinking he'd get some good AP for it when instead he could have spent 80 and gotten a chain vest and gotten something that would universally get rated for armor by any marshal he happened to get to first.
 
Clearly I have touched on a sore subject here.

Thanks for all the advice.

I am definately looking forward to making some leather bracers and such for a caster as I am not planning on going toe-to-toe with any baddies.

I don't know if my 40 year old body could handle it, but we'll see. ;)

I have also been quite impressed with the amount of feedback from people. I am glad to see so much passion. I'm now certain I've chosen the right group for this activity and I haven't even attended my first event yet.

Thanks all again.
John
 
Don't worry, John. There's lots of us in the 35+ category that play this game, you won't be the only one hurting at the end of the day. :D
 
Don't take our back and forth too seriously either, with any group as large as ours there will be some slight differnces in how various logistics task such as rating armor is handled. Maxon is absolutely right from the stand point that if you want to be sure of your armor rating its better to wear pieces that cover a bare minimum of half the area, and preferably the entire area. I generally try to avoid cluttering up topics, but once any owner (and most marschalls and players for that matter) notice their 'name in lights' so to speak, we can't help but want to clarify things to help avoid future misunderstandings.
 
What he said, and also after going back and reading my first statement on here, I really didn't mean it as to call someone out. I tend to write in this type of format in a conversational vein, and if he'd said just what he wrote my conversation would have been "Really? Who told you that?" which doesn't come across as well in text, so sorry if anyone felt like I was crying out to the heavens for identification followed by vengeful smiting. That's all I'll say on it, since I think I covered the other furtherness of the points in my other posts. Peace out.
 
Also, it is really frustrating to those of us who actually go to the effort and cost of building/buying armor that actually fits the letter of the rule, and the disadvantages of wearing it, when someone cheeses the requirements and is then given full points for it. If my half-crippled knees can run me around in full coverage of 4 locations worth of plate, I figure most anyone can actually wear enough leather to cover half of the required location for points. :D
 
Wraith said:
Also, it is really frustrating to those of us who actually go to the effort and cost of building/buying armor that actually fits the letter of the rule, and the disadvantages of wearing it, when someone cheeses the requirements and is then given full points for it. If my half-crippled knees can run me around in full coverage of 4 locations worth of plate, I figure most anyone can actually wear enough leather to cover half of the required location for points. :D
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QFT
 
My primary character is a bow-toting, scroll-writing, potion-making, earth-casting scholar. It cost me 10 Build Points for the right to use that bow, and I am not sorry that I did so.

As for armor, when I need to get up to my scholarly 12 armor points (for example when going on some kinds of mods, or when preparing for marching into a wave battle) I have stealth armor ... fender washers sewn into canvas worn underneath ... and a pair of leather bracers.
 
Picky point...

If your a non-elf scholar, the bow skill cost you 12 build to get. ;)

lol, but that stealth armor does sound pretty cool.
 
You can wear any armor value you desire. If you want to trounce about as a scholar in a full plate suit of heavy metal, have at. The value of the tag you can equip is capped by what your wear, as well as limited by your class limit and how many "wear extra armor" skills you bought. My suggestion is to come up with a look that compliments your character concept and will be comfortable running around in all weekend, then add to that if you want and need to improve your armor value. Bumping things from 2pt pieces to 3pt pieces is just a matter of how much money do you want to spend, moreso than anything else. Bumping from 1pt to 2pts is a bit harder, but if hidden plates or mail are within the scope of your concept, can be done fairly easily.
 
tazoulti said:
For the first item, you'll probably want to get one of the open pouchs so that you won't be a likely to make flub the of yanking out a spell packet instead of an arrow during a fight.
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Aw crud! I was interrupted by a certain gypsy when I wrote that, and now re-reading it, I look like a total git. (Though a common event on account of my bad ears...) :(

What I meant to say was - you should probably get one of those open pouches that have two pockets for storing separate packets so that you won't make a flub of yanking out a spell packet instead of an arrow during a fight. Which I've done a few times, so I speak from experience here. Heck, I've even accidentally tossed one of my pink throwing daggers when I meant to chuck a cure light spell packet!
 
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