IG knowledge of game mechanics: followup

Alex319

Artisan
First of all, thank you for your detailed responses to my questions about IG knowledge of game mechanics such as body points. To recap, the short answer is that, say, swinging "6 normal" and hitting someone three times with a boffer doesn't necessarily correspond IG to the character being hit exactly three times with a sword, so IG, characters wouldn't be able to correlate number of strikes vs. who is giving the strike vs. what spell they need to heal them to "figure out the damage system". (And, talking about exact numbers of damage points is rarely relevant to gameplay: if we're in the battle, I can hear the damage calls; if I'm just in the tavern bragging to my friend about how I killed the giant troll, it doesn't matter too much whether the troll was swinging for 8s or 9s.) However, there are other aspects of game mechanics where the situation is less clear, so I'm interested in what you think about these.

Production Points:
It certainly seems that this is something that is concrete - if I can make exactly 12 throwing daggers in a month, then that's 12 physical throwing daggers, that anyone can see. And as a blacksmith I would certainly have to know that "I can make either 12 throwing daggers, or 9 throwing daggers and a longsword, etc.") because that is a decision that my character IG is making. So is the Production Point system known (and would characters call them Production Points, or something else? Do you have to have a production or merchant skill to know IG how hard certain things are to make, or does everyone know?). This is actually relevant to me right now because I want to print out the Production Point charts from the rulebook to use as a reference for the values of items during loot splits.

Spell slots and pyramid restrictions: Again, a spell is a discrete thing, so it seems like characters would certainly know that they can cast X number of spells from circle Y, and they would know that they can't seem to learn their first 5th level spell until after they've learned two 4th level spells, etc. (And this could be relevant in terms of talking about it in some situations. For instance, let's say a caster, who is known to have not yet been taught 5th level spells, is accused by a witness of having cast a Cause Serious Wounds on a mod earlier that day. At the trial later that day, before resurgence, he casts two Cure Serious Wounds and argues that the witness must be lying, because he can't have more than two 4th circle spell slots, and he still had both of them left.)

Ritual levels and difficulty: Ritual levels and difficulty certainly seems like it would be an "abstracted" mechanic - if a ritual is difficulty 9, that doesn't refer to 9 distinct things, it's just how high it is relative to something else. And if I have 12 ritual levels, that's an abstract representation of how knowledgeable I am, not referring to 12 specific things IG. But unlike with exact damage numbers, exact ritual difficulties and levels ARE very often relevant to gameplay, because I need to know whether I can get a certain augmentation on it, or some rituals have different effects depending on how many levels it is cast at. So either we need a way of talking about these exact numbers IG, or (if we're not supposed to be able to talk about exact numbers, and need to communicate the information other ways) it would be useful to have guidance on what we ARE allowed to talk about.
 
Production Points: It certainly seems that this is something that is concrete - if I can make exactly 12 throwing daggers in a month, then that's 12 physical throwing daggers, that anyone can see. And as a blacksmith I would certainly have to know that "I can make either 12 throwing daggers, or 9 throwing daggers and a longsword, etc.") because that is a decision that my character IG is making. So is the Production Point system known (and would characters call them Production Points, or something else? Do you have to have a production or merchant skill to know IG how hard certain things are to make, or does everyone know?). This is actually relevant to me right now because I want to print out the Production Point charts from the rulebook to use as a reference for the values of items during loot splits.

A few things here:

First, you can't really say "I can make 12 throwing daggers." I can make 12 throwing daggers with a single level of weaponsmithing using batching, which is basically (IG) a time/money/skill tradeoff. It'd cost me something like 4 gold 2 silver 5 copper to make those 12 throwing daggers (assuming one day of prod, not a weekend), but I could do it. Comparatively, a weaponsmith with 12 levels of weaponsmithing could also make those 12 daggers in the same amount of time for 4 silver 8 copper.

Which brings us to the second point: Production points have a great IG analog that I'd strongly encourage people to use. The copper you spend represents "the raw materials and other costs associated with making the item" (ARB 1.2 pg 55). So it is perfectly fine to say "look at all of these amazing throwing daggers I was able to produce since the last time we met! I've gotten better at it too, when we first met it would have taken me 9 silver worth of material, but now I can do it for a little under 5 silver."

Another thing that could be used is to express skill level in terms of what you can produce, not in terms of quantity, but at all: "I can create throwing daggers and shields, but a long sword is beyond my skill level at the moment."

The book also gives the titles "Journeyman" for 10 ranks and "Master" for 20, which I'd also consider fair use (with a few caveats) if one wanted to do use them for RP purposes, e.g., "master blacksmith" if someone wanted to use them that way.


Spell slots and pyramid restrictions: Again, a spell is a discrete thing, so it seems like characters would certainly know that they can cast X number of spells from circle Y, and they would know that they can't seem to learn their first 5th level spell until after they've learned two 4th level spells, etc. (And this could be relevant in terms of talking about it in some situations. For instance, let's say a caster, who is known to have not yet been taught 5th level spells, is accused by a witness of having cast a Cause Serious Wounds on a mod earlier that day. At the trial later that day, before resurgence, he casts two Cure Serious Wounds and argues that the witness must be lying, because he can't have more than two 4th circle spell slots, and he still had both of them left.)

I generally think it is fair to understand IG that magic works via memorization and spell circles (which I prefer to "levels") and that the "tides change" or "resurgence" allowing the renewal of magical abilities.

The pyramid structure of things is a little more iffy, but I'd consider it mostly above board so long as we don't get into things like wand damage. I might change the language from things like "spell slots" and such, however, "I can only cast 2 4th circle spells!" seems like it'd be generally sufficient.

Of course, there's not really a good way to validate that they aren't lying about their abilities either (at least using these mechanics).

Ritual levels and difficulty: Ritual levels and difficulty certainly seems like it would be an "abstracted" mechanic - if a ritual is difficulty 9, that doesn't refer to 9 distinct things, it's just how high it is relative to something else. And if I have 12 ritual levels, that's an abstract representation of how knowledgeable I am, not referring to 12 specific things IG. But unlike with exact damage numbers, exact ritual difficulties and levels ARE very often relevant to gameplay, because I need to know whether I can get a certain augmentation on it, or some rituals have different effects depending on how many levels it is cast at. So either we need a way of talking about these exact numbers IG, or (if we're not supposed to be able to talk about exact numbers, and need to communicate the information other ways) it would be useful to have guidance on what we ARE allowed to talk about.

I wish there was a good set of convenient language for abstracting levels and difficulty, but as you say the specific numbers are relevant for both gameplay and specific, in-the-moment capabilities. In general, I'd consider these IG concepts. Possibly with some language tweaks if someone can propose good ones.
 
Addendum, general principle: Think in terms of creating a believable world. It has rules and laws that govern behaviors such as magic that are more-or-less directly represented IG with fewer abstractions (mostly things like using birdseed packets instead of tesla coils), but when you talk about things that have real-world allegories—including the damage caused by spells—it is better to talk in terms of those allegories than it is to rely on the abstraction of the rules.
 
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