Leapfrogging Expanded Enchantment

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Joetor

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Can the spell being put into an expanded enchantment originate from a successfully cast expanded enchantment ritual cast in the same batch?

To ask another way:

If I only had one life spell available and wanted to use it to make a 2/day life item, would it be possible to use the same spell to complete the item?
 
As expanded enchantment requires a spell be cast into the item, and states that the spell is cast when the item is used, this looks perfectly legal.

Edit: However, a second person would have to use the item in question as the formal caster can't use Game Abilities without causing auto backlash.

Also, of course, it would only have 1 Life spell until the next logistics period , having cast one for the expanded enchant.
 
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I had never thought of doing this, but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't be a valid move. Unless I've misread something, rituals take effect at the end of their casting, not at the end of the batch, so you should be able to use the item immediately, even on another ritual on the same item within the same batch.
 
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As expanded enchantment requires a spell be cast into the item, and states that the spell is cast when the item is used, this looks perfectly legal.

Edit: However, a second person would have to use the item in question as the formal caster can't use Game Abilities without causing auto backlash.

Also, of course, it would only have 1 Life spell until the next logistics period , having cast one for the expanded enchant.

I was under the impression that if the scroll specifically called for the use of a spell or skill in the ritual that it was allowed without causing backlash.
 
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No, you may not use a single casting of Life to power two different castings of Expanded Enchantment.

Each ritual requires its own spell. ("The spell must be cast into the item at the time of ritual casting." -source). So, you begin ritual casting your first Exp. Enchant - during which you cast a Life spell. Then, you begin your second ritual, also an Exp. Enchant. - this requires a Life spell cast during this casting.

Enchantment, otoh, which creates a times-ever use of a spell, and since it is a single ritual casting which can produce multiple charges, can be powered by a single spell casting.

And yes, the ritual caster may make use of any Game Abilities required for the ritual. The backlash condition is as follows:

The caster uses a Game Ability other than Formal Magic, Read and Write or a Game Ability, spell, or magic item specifically indicated on the ritual scroll. (pg 131 ARB 1.2)
 
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"The caster uses a Game Ability other than Formal Magic, Read and Write or a Game Ability, spell, or magic item specifically indicated on the ritual scroll." (pg 131 ARB 1.2, italics mine)

While the caster could cast the life spell into the item in question per the Expanded Enchantment scroll text, I would argue that he couldn't use a magic item to do the same. I am not too strong on this opinion and realize it could be read in a different manner, so I'll defer to JP on this as it seems to fit the spirit of the rules better than my initial interpretation (which is a little rule nitpicky).

I do wish to posit this to you JP. When you create an Expanded Enchantment item, can you cast the spell out of it immediately or does it need to wait until the next logistics period? If it's the former, then you have 1st ritual, cast from memory into item, ritual complete. 2nd ritual cast from item into itself, ritual complete. It works no differently than Ritual, cast item from the 1/day spell on your ring, ritual complete. You don't double the total number of spells in that first logistics period. (The item has 2/day life, 1 used).
 
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Activating a magic item as a spell is, in no way, different than casting one from memory, in regards to creating magic items.

I do this all the time.

I cast a life on an item, complete ritual. I start a new ritual. I activate item, use it to target itself by touching it with the packet. It expends the charge on the first ritual, but creates a charge on the second.

Rituals don't become active the moment the batch is closed. They become active the moment the individual ritual is completed. Ergo, once I finish the first one, I now have an item with a 1xday Life. Once I burn it for the second EE, I now have a 2xday Life with one charge exhausted.
 
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Dan, I could totally have the Marshal write up a new temp tag (or modify the existing temp tag) after every individual ritual. The fact we don't is a matter of efficiency, not legitimacy.

I'm pretty confident the overseeing Marshal would rule the same way, as I would.
 
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I do wish to posit this to you JP. When you create an Expanded Enchantment item, can you cast the spell out of it immediately or does it need to wait until the next logistics period? If it's the former, then you have 1st ritual, cast from memory into item, ritual complete. 2nd ritual cast from item into itself, ritual complete. It works no differently than Ritual, cast item from the 1/day spell on your ring, ritual complete. You don't double the total number of spells in that first logistics period. (The item has 2/day life, 1 used).
My bad, I didn't catch that part of your response. Sure, that would work as you outlined. But, to be clear, you're using two distinct castings - one from memory (or whatever) and one from the newly cast ritual.
 
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