Massive and "not expendable" defenses

[kalindra]

This has occasionally been a point of contention among marshals in my area over the years since this text was added in 2012:

"The Massive carrier will affect other de-
fensive abilities in different manners depend-
ing on the ability. An expendable defense such
as Magic Armor will not stop the attack, but
will still be lost. In this case, “Magic Armor,
taken” should be called. Defenses which are
not expendable (such as Prison, Threshold, or
Protection Aura) will not stop a Massive attack,
but will not themselves be taken down by the
blow."

Question: For the purposes of Massive, what specifically constitutes the set of "defenses which are not expendable"?

One group of us contends that only the defenses listed (Prison, Threshold, PA) plus Fortress would be affected by Massive, whereas several others believe that since you take Massive through a Prison, by extension the other Eldritch Force effects similarly would not defend against Massive, including Wall of Force, Circle of Power, and Ward. Which interpretation is correct?

 

[Draven]

The first.

Think of a Prison as being so strong that it won't break, but the force of Massive causing you, inside it, to be squishified, because the Prison contains you, and literally just you. Because the Prison is on -you-, and only you.

A Circle of Power isn't on -you- it's on your phys rep circle. So, you're not legally getting hit by a shot on your Circle, so there's nothing for the Massive to carry through to. Same with Wall of Force and Ward, because those aren't on you, they're on objects.

Summary: A Massive attack still has to physically, and legally, hit a -player-. The Massive carrier means the shot has so much power that the layers of protection on that -player- do not matter. Wall of Force, Ward, and Wizard Lock are not on the player, but on their surroundings.