NERO Economy

[jpariury]

actally I wish we had more PCs selling all that stuff (like me and smithing stuff) the problem with that is 2 fold tho
1) if you have a lot of crafting skills, you have less combat skills and may be seen as weaker.

There's not really any particular way to work around that one, in particular. Especially if consistency is going to be maintained for the the IG environment. CF is supposed to be a fairly large city. As such, it is more likely that there will be quite a few someone elses making production items.

Thus, an environment that is more encouraging to require production skills is one in which not only are there few NPC merchants and craftsmen, but one in which there is little reason for there to be such figures.

2) items are cheaper from monsters. No kidding.. if i make a long sword for 30 copper, and sell it for 60 copper, it has an IG value of 60 copper. If I get a long sword off of a monster, its value as tresure is 30 copper.

I'm really not sure where you're going with this.

If you produce a long sword for 30, and sell it to an NPC for 60, then yes, by treasure policy, it cost 60. OTOH, that also means it was only worth 30 to you.
If you beat up a monster, and sell it to an NPC for 60, then it cost 60 from policy also (since the 30 it cost to put the sword out is reabsorbed into policy). If it was an easy beatdown, then that sword is worth 60 to you as well. If, otoh, it cost you half a dozen protective potions, then you're cutting more and more into your profit.

Honestly, the greater weakness is in indestructible weapons. I haven't had to scrounge for a weapon in years (as Gregor), and therein lies the problem. Saying "Have Monster Camp throw out more shatters) really only hurts the low-levels and people who choose to NOT use magic weapons. I recall after all of those acid skin things last event, a few people being annoyed at having lost their weapons to them, but most of the highbies just kinda shrugged and moved on.

its one of the reasons we see so few PC merchants.

Wasn't it meant to be two?

I would also like to see production goods given as tresure given a more correct value. (2-3 times production cost for example)

In which context? Value per treasure policy? Priced by NPCs? What PCs are willing to pay? I don't see that reducing treasure policy would accomplish anything. Why not just ask that plot put out fewer production items?

 

[Anonymous]

Essentially, the treasure policy as far as the Point system value of it (not the Rit. scrolls/components, which I think that everyone is aware is completely broken) works fairly well. I think that JP had a good point. If you want to force the IG economy to be less "monster loot" driven, don't give out monster loot that the pcs will use. Give out things that they have to trade, like coin. Or send in more NPCs who don't have indestructable goods to purchase things. It's primarily the PCs fighting all the critters, so the PCs are going to be the primary customers, but there are some other people who are more poorly funded.

 

[Kauss]

ok let me try this again for detail. Lets say I kill 3 monsters and they have 3 diffrent things.
all 3 monsters are the same kind, and just as hard to kill in the same way.
monster one has 3 silver.
Monster 2 has a long sword.
monster 3 has a gem worth 3 silver.

ok now the first thing is worth 30 copper(from treasure policy), or has a value of 30 copper in game. 3 silver can be used as 3 silver pretty much no matter what.
Item 3 is worth 30 copper(from treasure policy), and has a value of about 30 copper in game, but often sells for a little less. (aka players take its effective value as less than the evaluate object list notes it at, for IG reasons.)
Item 2 , however, is worth 30 copper (from treasure policy) but has a value of 50-60 copper peices in game, since to make a long sword costs 30 copper, and the use of a slot of 30 production points to create.

Now this is true for any production item. If i wanted 5 copper in game, I just need 5 copper. If I want a dagger, I need 5 copper, and to use 5 production points.

now to be honest, to be correctly valued IG, I think production items should be worth what it cost to make them from treasure policy, but raw production points dont cost anything to not use, just to use, hence the problem. Production items found on monsters are inharently more vauable than coin and such.


as to the note about PC merchants, I want to see more PC merchants in nero overall. I do agree we should have more NPC merchants active in CF as well, selling not just production stuff, but other things like food and such as well. (tho we have some PCs branching into the food and drink department)
But to be honest, I have seen a goodly number of NPC merchants, selling maps and drugs and flesh and potions and one shot magic items and ect.. I just mostly see them when the monsters are not as active in town, and at odd hours.

 

[Kauss]

Essentially, the treasure policy as far as the Point system value of it (not the Rit. scrolls/components, which I think that everyone is aware is completely broken) works fairly well. I think that JP had a good point. If you want to force the IG economy to be less "monster loot" driven, don't give out monster loot that the pcs will use. Give out things that they have to trade, like coin. Or send in more NPCs who don't have indestructable goods to purchase things. It's primarily the PCs fighting all the critters, so the PCs are going to be the primary customers, but there are some other people who are more poorly funded.

actally treasure poilicy is very unrealistic. If its a small game (for example) suddenly the NPCs have less money if they need it. Money that goes into a reacuring NPC shouldnt just poof into treasure policy, it should stay with that NPC (more or less) to get used IG again. Example, if I buy 24 bottles of ale from the tavern keeper, and in a few months want to sell him some stuff, he should have the chance to have the money still. It also means IG you can rogue the merchant types becouse you know they have money. I am not saying this is set in stone, if you want X NPC to be poor for a plot reason, or you want to give him some goods equiel to the money he had, all well and good. But personly hate the fact that NPC money goes Poof the moment it hits treasure policy.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure where you're going with "NPC treasure going poof", but I think it has to do with a misunder standing of the treasure policy on your part. If you give an NPC loot, and it does not go into PC hands, it does not come out of the Treasure Policy. If an NPC sells an item with an IG value to a PC, so long as the amount that is paid by the PC to the NPC is greater then the PP cost of the item, then the cost of the item does not come out of the TP, and the amount paid for the item does not re-enter the TP.

So far as the PP and $ cost of items by PCs, I understand the issue that you have, but you must take into account that at the present time, there is no value for PP. They are simply a means for you to exchange items for money at the lowest possible value, logistically. Effectivly, you could just assume that plot has an infinite number of PP which they use to exchange TP $ for items.

 

[Sarah]

Frankly, just to chime in, I think PP items from the TP should require both the PP to make the item and the CP that the PP costs, just like the way it costs PCs.

So, if you send out a long sword worth 30 PP, you remove 30 PP and 30 CP thus making the IG value 60 CP.

Yeah, it means less loot in general, but I think it would definitely help with the economy issue. (And if you think there's not an economy issue, you're on something...)

 

[Kauss]

I'm not sure where you're going with "NPC treasure going poof", but I think it has to do with a misunder standing of the treasure policy on your part. If you give an NPC loot, and it does not go into PC hands, it does not come out of the Treasure Policy. If an NPC sells an item with an IG value to a PC, so long as the amount that is paid by the PC to the NPC is greater then the PP cost of the item, then the cost of the item does not come out of the TP, and the amount paid for the item does not re-enter the TP.

So far as the PP and $ cost of items by PCs, I understand the issue that you have, but you must take into account that at the present time, there is no value for PP. They are simply a means for you to exchange items for money at the lowest possible value, logistically. Effectivly, you could just assume that plot has an infinite number of PP which they use to exchange TP $ for items.

of course there is a value for PP's. The value is the upcost the marchant puts on the goods. But giving plot unlimited free PPs makes production items more valuble then non production items in TP, and that way off. I mean look at it this way.. (larger items) a stringthened longsword costs 80 PP to make, and costs 580 copper to make. So an IG merchant has to sell it for 580 copper to break even, but would sell it for at least 9 gold. The diffrence between a 580 copper item and a 900 copper item is huge.


Now as to the first part, if a PC buys something from a NPC, the extra money goes.. nowhere. That NPC doesnt get to keep it if they get played again, they start with whatever part of TP they get to have.
If I tip the dishwasher with IG money, and they are a NPC the money goes poof, it doesnt stay with the NPC.
TP deals with monster stuff mostly, and doesnt really touch other economical matters. Outside of craftmen skills, making money for things other than killing monsters is not really handled well by the TP and it shows sometimes. (Not saying that TP doesnt give NPCs money to pay for drinks IG and such, its just oriented for monster treasure.)

 

[Balryn]

If I tip the dishwasher with IG money, and they are a NPC the money goes poof, it doesnt stay with the NPC.
TP deals with monster stuff mostly, and doesnt really touch other economical matters. Outside of craftmen skills, making money for things other than killing monsters is not really handled well by the TP and it shows sometimes. (Not saying that TP doesnt give NPCs money to pay for drinks IG and such, its just oriented for monster treasure.)

If the monster is ran right, the money NPCs collect should go back into the sum of the TP. I ran many events where I couldn't distrubute enough treasure because we took in more than we could give. If a potion maker NPC sells 1000 PP worth of items for 2000 CP, then there should be an extra 1000 CP in the bucket for treasure to go back out.

I agree that the economy system is flawed (has been since it came into existence), but it's the only way to keep some balance between chapters. I think that the primary problem has been that most of the RP and merchant skills in the game left in 6th edition. The main stay of the book is 99% combat skills. I would like to see more RP/Merchant/Artisan skills back in the game because it added greatly to the economy and world flavor... but most of those skills don't exist in the Alliance.

Running a game with an economy also requires a lot of prep time and system rationalization for trade and economics which currently has to rely on a system with no skills (and be purely plot controlled). I used to have a variety of craftsman, lore and a few other skills that could be used in non combat situations but they sadly don't exist anymore.

~B