Pin and Repel

[Zen Mallowbrooks]

If someone is pinned, webbed, confined, or any other effect that prevents them from moving and is subsequently repelled and forced to move away (out of the ten feet of the repel caster), what happens? Is that person simply unable to take action because they cannot move away from the caster? In other words, can I pin someone then repel them, then proceed to beat them down if they are close enough?

 

[deadlandsrules]

"The victim and the target should then stay at least ten feet apart while the spell is in effect, and the caster must keep the hand held out toward the target." This would lead me to believe that the 10 foot distance must be maintained, so that if the target can not physically move away, then the caster must move.

 

[MaxIrons]

If you Pin then Repel someone they cannot move away. However, two things apply. While you have a Repel up, you cannot approach the target either. Secondly, Repel is a concentration effect, and you cannot use any Game Abilites while concentrating. So as soon as you attack the target, assuming they're close enough, the Repel goes down.

 

[kalindra]

Actually the ARB is not very consistent with concentration effects: under the Repel description it says "The outstretched hand may not be used for any other purpose, although the caster may use the other hand for in-game skills."

The target also can't attack the caster within the ten feet, though. So I suppose if you cast it when you were already close enough to attack you could beat down your opponent or use another spell, as long as you use the other hand to do it and don't approach any closer than you were when repel was cast, if within ten feet.

 

[MaxIrons]

It's under the Concentration effect length. Page 97. " While concentrating the caster cannot run or use any Game Abilities."

 

[kalindra]

Yeah, and then it's contradicted by the repel description on page 122. Similarly, desecrate and sanctuary allow touch casting on yourself as the only allowed game skill. (Note that these "require" concentration but are listed as having a ten minute duration.) Unless there is an ARC clarification I'm not aware of, these effects are specific exceptions to the no game skills restriction on concentration effects.

 

[MaxIrons]

Ugh, I see what you mean under the Repel description. I assumed that since they specifically mention Repel in the bit about Concentration effects that it would apply. *rubs forehead* I think Sean's way makes things much less... messy.

 

[Zen Mallowbrooks]

I mean, that's the way I always thought it should work, but I've seen NPCs do things like shun someone then continue pressing them and attacking them so they can't get away and do anything, which is similar in my eyes so I thought I'd ask. Since nothing in the rule book supports this either way, is this something that should go to the ARC questions?

EDIT: I guess if NPCs have done it, it's not fair to say that PCs haven't done it. That wasn't my intent >.<

 

[kalindra]

Shun is a little different because it's a mind effect on the target, whereas repel creates a physical force separating the caster and the target. It might be kinda mean, but not disallowed to attack someone you've just shunned. (As far as I can see in the rules.)

 

[jpariury]

If someone is pinned, webbed, confined, or any other effect that prevents them from moving and is subsequently repelled and forced to move away (out of the ten feet of the repel caster), what happens? Is that person simply unable to take action because they cannot move away from the caster? In other words, can I pin someone then repel them, then proceed to beat them down if they are close enough?

If the target is incapable of moving, it does not move, regardless of the Repel. Subsequently, the caster cannot move closer.

Note that Shun does not possess any rule language indicating that the caster cannot move closer once the Shun takes effect, whereas Repel does.

It might be worth asking the ARC if the intention is for the Repel to represent a physical force (and therefore even an unconscious or Paralyzed body can be forced to move), or some sort of manipulation of muscles.

 

[Avaran]

If someone is pinned, webbed, confined, or any other effect that prevents them from moving and is subsequently repelled and forced to move away (out of the ten feet of the repel caster), what happens? Is that person simply unable to take action because they cannot move away from the caster? In other words, can I pin someone then repel them, then proceed to beat them down if they are close enough?

The caster should move away, imo. It's no different than having someone stuck between you and a wall and then hitting them with a Repel. Do you really expect them to go through the wall? Nope. Same situation here, I think.

In my mind, there are two primary things that inform my thought on this: First, players should always fight safely and keep each others' safety in mind when playing. Secondly, be a good sport.

It might be worth asking the ARC if the intention is for the Repel to represent a physical force (and therefore even an unconscious or Paralyzed body can be forced to move), or some sort of manipulation of muscles.

From a practical standpoint, it is going to be really hard to represent/play a magical force acting on a paralyzed or unconscious body. In theory it sounds neat, but 1) it's hard to rep/play easily, and 2) I can see it causing the same kinds of creative issues as being able to pick up and run with a body with an Endow, for example, and chaining that ability on an OOG level.

 

[kalindra]

Technically, the description of Repel says that the target must move away, and that neither the target nor the caster can approach within ten feet... It doesn't really say that the caster has to move if the target can't. It does, however, say that the target can't be forced off a cliff or whatever, and that in order to get ten feet away the target can get closer temporarily as long as they don't attack the caster while within ten feet. By my reading, the caster isn't required to move if the target is stuck, and if the target has to go past you in order to get away for whatever reason I don't see any particular verbiage that prevents the caster from attacking while they do so (with the other hand, of course).

No idea what a paralyzed person is supposed to do, though...

 

[Draven]

A Paralyzed character isn't rooted to the ground. So the body should move. The "victim" should be able to RP this however they want, whether "flying away" or "sliding away."

 

[jpariury]

The caster should move away, imo. It's no different than having someone stuck between you and a wall and then hitting them with a Repel. Do you really expect them to go through the wall? Nope. Same situation here, I think.

I seem to recall that it used to be that way, but the current language does not support the caster being pushed away. If there's a wall (or better yet, a box canyon) behind you preventing you from moving ten feet away directly, you're supposed to go past the caster (yes, getting closer temporarily - this is covered in the rule on page 122).

From a practical standpoint, it is going to be really hard to represent/play a magical force acting on a paralyzed or unconscious body.

I don't think it's substantially different from drive Endow-pickups, though, and less clumsy, imo.