Preserve Duration Batch Placement

[Draven]

I was attempting a search of the forums for any rulings, but the search function does not seem to be working correctly (a search by specific section comes up with 0 items, regardless of what I'm searching for, even simple words like "bow").

I heard that there was a ruling that Preserve/Permanent Duration do not need to be at the tail of a batch. Is that correct?

If that is true, does that mean I can put twelve rits plus permanent duration into a rit, Boost it, go to another chapter and slam in six more rits, and all 18 are Permanent?

 

[RuffianDragon]

http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/boost-duration-ritual.18931/

A) Not sure about an official ruling, but yes. You can cast Permanent Duration/Preserve first in fact and it will cover all rituals cast in that "batch".

B) Yes. An example....

1)- Go to Chapter A.
2)- Cast 12 Rituals with one of them being Permanent Duration. All succeed.
3)- Cast Boost Duration as the final ritual in the 'batch' in Chapter A.
4)- Go to Chapter B the following weekend.
5)- Cast 6 more Rituals. All succeed.
6)- All the appropriate Rituals in the batch are permanent.

 

[Avaran]

Extenders may be cast first, and often are just in cast it fails or goes wrong, the other rits aren't wasted.

If that is true, does that mean I can put twelve rits plus permanent duration into a rit, Boost it, go to another chapter and slam in six more rits, and all 18 are Permanent?

I would say no.

I suggest ARC'ing this part of your question. If you want to discuss the how's and why's of why I would say no, open a thread in the Rules Discussion forum.

 

[Alavatar]

Extenders may be cast first, and often are just in cast it fails or goes wrong, the other rits aren't wasted.

Per the Preserve Duration ritual text:

This ritual increases the duration of any Formal magic within the same batch on an item or a person, if that person has a spirit, to 5 years. This ritual can only be cast following the ritual(s) to be extended. The ritual will also extend a batch of rituals that have received a Boost Duration. The Boost ritual counts for the purposes of the chart below, but the Preserve Duration replaces it for the purposes of number of rituals upon an item.

Based on the bolded/underlined section I think we have been doing it wrong. However, based on the update to the ritual system posted 4/14/2011:

2. Extenders:
Extenders may be cast at any time during the Ritual Batch. If an Extender is cast as the last Ritual in a Batch the Difficulty/Reagent Cost is calculated off of the previous Rituals which were successful and on the item. If a Ritual is cast at the beginning or any time in a Batch other than as the last Ritual the Difficulty and Reagent cost of the Extender is based off the INTENDED number of Rituals in the Batch and is not modified by Failing Rituals which occur after the Extender is placed. For example if you cast a Permanence at the Difficulty of a 12 Ritual Item intending to place 12 Rituals into the item but, upon finishing the batch, only succeed at 8 of those additional Rituals (which would be a lower Permanence Difficulty/Reagent Cost) you will not receive any compensation for the additional Reagents or Difficulty used in casting the Permanence. You may, subject to the Batch definition, seek out additional Rituals to cast on the item to replace those which were lost and, as long as they are cast within the time limits of the Batch, these Rituals will go into the available Extender “slots”. This option does not allow you, however, to add more Rituals to an Extender than the Difficulty chosen. Continuing the example if you were to find 5 additional Rituals to continue your batch (after having failed 4) only the first 4 cast would be affected by the Permanence as that would take up the 12 available “Slots”. The 5th and final Ritual cast would not be affected by the Permanence and would need a new Extender or to expire on its base duration.

I would say no.

I also suggest ARC'ing this part of your question. If you want to discuss the how's and why's of why I would say no, open a thread in the Rules Discussion forum.

Based on the rules as written on the Boost Duration scroll I agree with you. The discussion here (which seems to have been edited a bunch because it is not how I remember it) is also saying you cannot cast a duration enhancing ritual prior to a Boost duration.

P.S. A second discussion, here, contradicts the first discussion.

 

[Draven]

I've popped it to ARC. Thanks, folks.