Protective Reflexes

B

Brooks

Newbie
Poor Yonkie is drained (skillless) in a room full of Death Knights, Litches, and one Zeth. He then gets hit by a Corrupt Thrown from Zeth.

Can he,
A) use protective reflexes?
B) use High Magic Cloaks?
C) Counter Spell if he had a life in memory.

All of these are in a grey area that I'm just not sure about. The first two, either can be used skill less or not. The last one is a yes or no. Counter Spell is an Item, but it pulls from a skill. So, to pull from that skill, you can't be skill less?

I only have one opinion with protective reflexes. To be on par with rebirth, you should be able to use it while you are awake, skilled or unskilled.

The other two are a yes or a no.

And thanks for you time and effort in reading the words above!
 
I asked in the Arc section about using high magic. Haven't received a response.
 
I can answer.

No, he can’t Cloak. Cloak is a game ability, and you cannot use it. There’s actually another precedence for this: Storm spells. Activating another skill cancels your Storm. In 1.3, you could activate a Cloak from a magic item and it wouldn’t break concentration, and it’s not a Game ability, so you don’t lose it. But Cloak MIs are no longer a thing.

Likewise, he can’t use Protective Reflex for the same reason.

I would say that you could Counterspell. Losing Game Abilities only mechanically means you cannot activate them; it doesn’t remove them from your card. So I’d say you could still use it. But I agree that ARC should clarify that.

That ruling would apply to Spell Parry, after all.**

**Edit: No it wouldn’t. I just realized you can’t Spell parry anyways, because you lose weapon skills, which are required to spell parry.
 
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I don't think you'd be able to use Counterspell, either; if you lose access to Game Abilities you also lose access to your memorized spells. You don't mark them off your board because they're not expended, but you do need access to them to cast them, or expend them with other Skills or Magic Items.

Depending on how you view prerequisites, the loss of Game Abilities means you lose access to Educated, the first prerequisite for magic, and if you view prerequisites as "you must be able to use this skill to use any other skill that requires it" (which our chapter does, which made the time an Earth Scholar lost the ability to Read and Write a hell of a time for them), then losing that skill from Drain means you can't cast or expend spells, either.
 
I think by this logic, you should also conclude that a High Magic user can't activate Rebirth while dead.

I think that there is a good argument that abilities purchased with High Magic points are the equivalent of an already running spell effect. Lets say our good friend Yonkie got hit by a Drain and realizes they're in trouble so quickly quaffs a spellshield potion that they made with their create potion skill, would they be able/required to use their Spell Shield against the corrupt? If the answer is yes to that, it should probably also be yes to using cloaks from high magic.

Also, you can still get 1/ever cloaks on magic items/spirit as a "Flaw" from ritual casting.
And I'd agree that you couldn't meditate and get an additional cloak while drain'd.
 
Rebirth specifically notes that it's used while dead (specifically, at 4:59 on your death timer), so it overrules the "No Game Abilities while Dead" rule. Drain doesn't persist into death, so being Drained and then killed wouldn't affect your ability to Rebirth.

There are no prerequisites for having a Shield of any kind active on you other than being alive, and the Shields themselves are not Game Abilities, so losing Game Abilities doesn't affect them. If you're Drained, then drink a Spell Shield Potion, then get hit with Spell Corrupt, the Spell Shield will pop.

High Magic itself is a Game Ability, and converting High Magic points into Cloaks doesn't change that. No access to High Magic, no access to High Magic Cloaks.
 
Feldor said:
I think by this logic, you should also conclude that a High Magic user can't activate Rebirth while dead.

I think that there is a good argument that abilities purchased with High Magic points are the equivalent of an already running spell effect. Lets say our good friend Yonkie got hit by a Drain and realizes they're in trouble so quickly quaffs a spellshield potion that they made with their create potion skill, would they be able/required to use their Spell Shield against the corrupt? If the answer is yes to that, it should probably also be yes to using cloaks from high magic.

Also, you can still get 1/ever cloaks on magic items/spirit as a "Flaw" from ritual casting.
And I'd agree that you couldn't meditate and get an additional cloak while drain'd.
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Drain isn’t time traveling. It doesn’t matter who made the potion, it’s just a potion and requires no skill to use.

High Magic isn’t comparable to a potion, as drinking a potion is not a Game Ability.

A better example would be a Scroll, which requires Read Magic to activate. Since Read Magic goes away, so does your ability to use a Scroll.
 
So currently in 1.3 you can spellstrike without being able to use a weapon even. Is this still the case in 2.0? If I have a purify potion coating, can I hit myself to fix the drain?
 
Tantarus said:
So currently in 1.3 you can spellstrike without being able to use a weapon even. Is this still the case in 2.0? If I have a purify potion coating, can I hit myself to fix the drain?
Click to expand...

Edit: ACTUALLY

Now that I think of it, you can’t use a poison coating on a weapon without the skill.

Since Potion Coating still follows the coating rules, as was recently pointed out to me, I would actually say, no, you can’t.

You’d still need the skill to use the weapon.
 
I want to say no? Drain removes your ability to use Weapon Skills, so it would also remove your ability to use Coatings; while called as a Spell Strike, Potion Coatings function in all other ways like a Poison Coating (applied with Herbal Lore, usable with Poison Cache and Poison Trigger, applied on the first swing and last until landed).
 
Sage of Legaia said:
I want to say no? Drain removes your ability to use Weapon Skills, so it would also remove your ability to use Coatings; while called as a Spell Strike, Potion Coatings function in all other ways like a Poison Coating (applied with Herbal Lore, usable with Poison Cache and Poison Trigger, applied on the first swing and last until landed).
Click to expand...

I actually just edited because I came to the same conclusion. Potion Coating isn’t Channel Spell.
 
Coatings are a bit of an oddball, yes.

On a helpful side note, though, if Magic Items (including Spell Strikes) are usable while Drained, then Memory Strike would be able to fix you; it's charged with a Spell ahead of time, so it would be usable even with no access to Game Abilities.
 
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