PVC Armor

mattz164

Newbie
Many other LARPS allow the use of PVC armor, whether it be chain or plate and I was wondering if Alliance allowed this as well. I've seen this technique used on multiple costumes before and with the right painting it looks exactly like regular chain, the only time you realize its not is when you lift it and see it only weighs 5lbs instead of 30lbs.

I can see multiple reasons to allow PVC chain in game. It is much more cost effective, you do not have to worry about maintaining it, repairing it is easy, as well as multiple safety concerns such as thunderstorms, high heat in the summer, and possible future back problems.
 
Its allowed... its just not rated at as high a value as metal chain or plate.
 
For real?
Whats a long sleeve shirt covering just above knee cap fetch for armor? I am sure it might vary chapter to chapter but a ruff estimate??
 
It'll be the marshal's call on the field, but for the most part I'd figure it as light non-metallic or non-metallic plate. So 1 or 2 points per location. A knee-length long sleeved setup would be 6 locations (chest, abdomen, back, upper arm, lower arm, upper leg), so 6 to 12 points. 2 bonus points possible for 'in period' are not likely on a plastic set unless it is absolutely wonderful at looking like real armor, and mastercraft can get up to 4 more that will depend on a marshal's call.
 
Wraith said:
mastercraft can get up to 4 more that will depend on a marshal's call.

What if I would use a European 6 in 1 weave or a Kingsmaille weave? (Standard European 4 in 1, but using doubling rings)

6 in 1 example:
http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/ ... gi?key=291
6 in 1 As PVC:
http://home.comcast.net/~genpeter/images/mailtorso.jpg

Kingsmaille example:
http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/ ... i?key=3512

Would these be considered masterwork? They have a much tighter look than standard European 4 in 1, so I would assume that they would count as better protection. I am also going to be painting these, probably with a black undercoat of primer, then building on top of it with a specialty metallic spray that looks like hammered iron when dry, then a light silver drybrush technique on top so that it has a very realistic effect. I know that unless you are a Marshal, you can't really tell me what the value would be, however I'd like to get some input before putting a good amount of time and effort into this project from much more experienced players.

My plan is to have a longsleeve chain shirt with a coif (think hoodie made out of steel rings) with a skirt that falls just above the knee that slits up the middle in the front. Something like this:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/N ... te_069.jpg

or like this:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/N ... nmail1.jpg

Should I go ahead with this, I will post progress pics and reports of it so if others like the results, they can do the same.
 
Wraith's assesment is the best anyone can really do without seeing it, and then its still marshal's descresion in the end, particularly on the mastercraft and the in persiod bonus.

--bill
 
dreadpiratebill said:
Wraith's assesment is the best anyone can really do without seeing it, and then its still marshal's descresion in the end, particularly on the mastercraft and the in persiod bonus.

--bill

Seems like I am getting some good feedback from people. Looks as if until someone sees it, it's hard to make an assessment. I was just wondering because I saw in some of the other forum posts that metal armor gets better armor points, but then some people are making the argument that if it LOOKS like heavy metal it should ACT like heavy metal in the game. I just would like to know if my armor will be accepted in game before doing this. Even if it would only get 2pts per location, which seems very fair to me, I still think it would be worth it.

Granted, I've seen some really bad examples of PVC in the past. Holes everywhere, and it just looks cheap, but I think that's because the maker did not put as much time and effort into the piece.

I am going to go forward on this, posting pictures and a full tutorial on how I did it once completed. Thanks for all the advice.
 
mattz164 said:
I saw in some of the other forum posts that metal armor gets better armor points, but then some people are making the argument that if it LOOKS like heavy metal it should ACT like heavy metal in the game.
People's opinion (that if it looks the part it should act the part) don't have anything to do with the rules of the game, unfortunately. The only way to get 3 points is actual heavy metal. PVC chain would probably get 1 or 2 points per, depending on the final product.
~Matt, WCV
Marshal
 
And honestly, metal brig isn't that hard, relatively speaking. If you don't have the shears (which can run up to a pretty penny if you're getting the bench mounted ones), then you can usually go to a metal shop and get them to cut it down for you for a moderate fee. The plates for the last suit of brig I made ran maybe 40 bucks. I was going for 16 guage steel, which is a little over kill. I'll probably go 18 guage in the future, as that's sufficient and a lot easier to manager with aviator shears.

If you don't have a whitney punch, a good hand power drill will punch holes in steel plate with a little work.

I'm not sure why so many folks are dead set against using metal. It's not that much heavier, and if you're going to be doing the work and buying tools, not that much more expensive.

D
 
The reason is under the rule set I can get 24 pts of armor for studded or ringed leather, which is cheaper, lighter, and easier to move around in. Wearing head to toe steel just to be able to soak one extra Stone Bolt's worth of damage just isn't worth the time, money, hassle, and wear and tear on my body when I'd much rather be able to be mobile and avoid the damage all together than soak a tiny bit more. Even if it's not that much heavier, it is a whole lot less flexible and thus restrictive of dodging packets and weapon blows.
 
And both of the above posts are why I still think the armor rules need revision to make physical armor more worthwhile. :D In real armor, plate is the weapon of choice as it provides better impact and cut protection for an often lighter and always better distributed weight than chain. However the extra 1 possible point per location for using plate in no way makes up for being less able to dodge spells and arrows the way someone in padded or studded leather can.
 
The weight of the armor - the restriction in movement for some types of armor - that is the cost you pay for the advantage of the protection.

I would love to be able to wear 16 ounces of plastic to get a full scholarly 12 points of protection -- but that's not how the game is played, so I carry several pounds of armor to get my full protection. Sometimes I wear my armor, and sometimes I don't (because it's hard to wear all that weight all day long). Sometimes I don't have a chance to take it off because I don't have time, and sometimes I don't put it on because I don;t have time. Not being a fighter, it's not as critical, but being an Ansconi (MWE) scholar Ondreij doesn't have as much body as an Orcan fighter making it more important.

If I could get 12 points of armor wearing some light weight (albeit good looking) armor, I would -- and I wouldn't have to make decisions about to wear, or not to wear, my heavier metal plate armor (it's made of fender washers sewn into a heavy canvas tabard - and weighs 6 pounds, 10 ounces).
 
Ondreij said:
I would love to be able to wear 16 ounces of plastic to get a full scholarly 12 points of protection -- but that's not how the game is played, so I carry several pounds of armor to get my full protection. Sometimes I wear my armor, and sometimes I don't...

I'm not exactly sure where you play. But I have a few very light pieces of armor that so far, in 5 out of 6 different chapters have gotten me my 12 points of Scholar armor. I've actually even slept in it and not felt that bad in the morning since its sewn layers of vynl that count for 1 point per location leather. This covers my torso and upper legs. Then I have some heavy leather metal plated bracers that are easily 2, possibly 3 point armor. And when you get the master craft and in-genre bonus for looking real nice that can add up to half of your suit of armor (6 points) as a scholar right there...

Leather Torso (3 locations) - 3 points
Leather Cuisses - 1 point
Light Metal Bracers - 2 points
In Genre - 2 points
Master Craft - 4 points

Total - 12 points :D

And the thing is that I've found in the majority of places they really want to give people good armor rating so if they have a fair reason to give you the bonuses they will give you them. Most marshals seem to be pretty nice about this, like I said, most.
 
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