Questions about the "Massive" carrier

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1. If two players are both holding onto a single weapon/shield/object and a monster hits the weapon/shield/object with the "Massive" carrier, who takes damage? My opinion as a Marshal would be both players, but looking for discussion on the subject.

2. If you are holding onto a large object (a large sack, perhaps) over your shoulder and a creature strikes you on the sack (which is technically on your back) with the "Massive" carrier, do you take damage? Again, my opinion as a Marshal is "yes", but I could also see an argument that the sack is considered "garb" depending on the angle of attack (i.e. hitting the side of the sack vs. hitting the sack in such a way that the arc of the weapon would have still connected with your torso).

3. If you are holding a door shut or a large dome-like structure down and a creature is striking the door/dome with the "Massive" carrier, do you take damage? What about multiple people holding the door/dome? My initial thought is "no" because the door is considered to be part of a structure, not a possession, but I could also see an argument that holding onto the door or dome should result in damage taken due to withstanding the force similar to using a shield. Yet, normally the damage taken due to "Massive" is translated through a tagged item for the most part, so there is little precedence for one to take "Massive" damage through a door.

P.S. Nate's nuts are not the subject of #2.

 

[Polare]

My 2 cents below... As always, standard disclaimers apply (Every situation is different, yadda yadda yadda....)

1. If two players are both holding onto a single weapon/shield/object and a monster hits the weapon/shield/object with the "Massive" carrier, who takes damage? My opinion as a Marshal would be both players, but looking for discussion on the subject.

This is precisely the same answer as "who would take the spell if a packet hit the weapon/shield/object". We generally try to discourage multiple people possessing things in combat for just this reason. As a Marshal I'd probably agree that both should take the hit, but in general if you're in a combat situation you as a player should do your best to not play tug-of-war with other players over items. This is an area that Marshals will give you the squinty eye and growl at you for; in the past, there have been such cases as multiple players holding a shield in front of a door, and when a Disarm hit, only one of them would let go, claiming "Oh, I was the one who really held it, he didn't but he is now!". So in general players (whether PC or NPC) should keep clarity on who is possessing what during combat, or they are likely to be knocked for confusion.

2. If you are holding onto a large object (a large sack, perhaps) over your shoulder and a creature strikes you on the sack (which is technically on your back) with the "Massive" carrier, do you take damage? Again, my opinion as a Marshal is "yes", but I could also see an argument that the sack is considered "garb" depending on the angle of attack (i.e. hitting the side of the sack vs. hitting the sack in such a way that the arc of the weapon would have still connected with your torso).

My general rule of thumb on this is "would it have hit you if the object wasn't there?". If yes, then you should take it. I'd say the same thing for garb - if your garb is physically interfering with hits such that you're not taking them, but you would if it wasn't in the way, you should probably take the hit. Baggy garb is NOT an excuse to avoid weapon hits. We allow people call "garb" on hits just to indicate when their clothing - and only their clothing - was connected with in such a way that had the clothing not been there there would have been no contact at all; we do not allow people to start cloak-fighting to tangle other peoples' weapons up. Again, this is an area it's easy to get called on by a Marshal if you're abusing the rules.

3. If you are holding a door shut or a large dome-like structure down and a creature is striking the door/dome with the "Massive" carrier, do you take damage? What about multiple people holding the door/dome? My initial thought is "no" because the door is considered to be part of a structure, not a possession, but I could also see an argument that holding onto the door or dome should result in damage taken due to withstanding the force similar to using a shield. Yet, normally the damage taken due to "Massive" is translated through a tagged item for the most part, so there is little precedence for one to take "Massive" damage through a door.

A door is pretty clearly not a person's possession. In general, this situation can be more safely covered through other means. Pretty much everything which can swing Massive has some amount of monster strength, and using monster strength to push doors open is clearly covered in the rulebook - so do it that way.

In general, remember that it is the responsibility of *every* player - PC, NPC, Marshal, Monster, whatever - to keep the game safe. If you're trying to stab through a door that other people are trying to slam shut, you're likely to end up messing up a weapon and making it unsafe. So don't do it. Deal with the situation in other ways - use a Destroy spell; use the existing Superhuman Strength ability; have a quick OOG chat with the other players and come to some compromise situation so the battle can continue safely.

 

[evi1r0n]

Wow Seth preempted the sack joke real fast.

 

[elliotbay]

2. If you are holding onto a large object (a large sack, perhaps) over your shoulder and a creature strikes you on the sack (which is technically on your back) with the "Massive" carrier, do you take damage? Again, my opinion as a Marshal is "yes", but I could also see an argument that the sack is considered "garb" depending on the angle of attack (i.e. hitting the side of the sack vs. hitting the sack in such a way that the arc of the weapon would have still connected with your torso).

My general rule of thumb on this is "would it have hit you if the object wasn't there?". If yes, then you should take it. I'd say the same thing for garb - if your garb is physically interfering with hits such that you're not taking them, but you would if it wasn't in the way, you should probably take the hit. Baggy garb is NOT an excuse to avoid weapon hits. We allow people call "garb" on hits just to indicate when their clothing - and only their clothing - was connected with in such a way that had the clothing not been there there would have been no contact at all; we do not allow people to start cloak-fighting to tangle other peoples' weapons up. Again, this is an area it's easy to get called on by a Marshal if you're abusing the rules.

It's worth noting that this applies whether or not the carrier is "massive". You are not wielding Nate's sack as a shield, so you would take it if it were on track to hit you in the same way as if you tried to block a weapon blow with a spellbook.

A door is pretty clearly not a person's possession. In general, this situation can be more safely covered through other means. Pretty much everything which can swing Massive has some amount of monster strength, and using monster strength to push doors open is clearly covered in the rulebook - so do it that way.

I usually forget about monster strength as often being in a monster's bag of tricks.