Scout Questions

Valdyr

Newbie
I haven't played an event yet either as an NPC or PC and I'm not quite sure how the Scout class plays out in combat.
What I would really like to do is a mixture of ranged kiting and trapping.
Has anyone attempted to use legerdemain in combat? Is that realistic at all?
Would love to just have a chat with someone who plays the scout class or someone who knows a lot about trapping.
Thanks!
 
The combat applications of legerdemain/traps are impressive, but hugely problematic. Traps are more meant for an ambush type situation or a module. It will take a minimum of 60 seconds to set the trap (yes 30 with 20 levels of create trap, but you wouldn't be doing that as a scout) and more than likely, during a fight, you'll get hit in that time.

There are a couple of different mind sets with which to play a scout. Archery is definitely an option. Gary (Deadlands on the boards) can probably go into more detail on that.

I prefer the "opportunistic fighter" approach. Swing something decent from the front and something huge from behind. Fight like a fighter until the opportunity presents itself.

Fair warning though, scout takes a while to come into its own as a class. It is (like all the split classes) worth picking one half of your skill set to "finish" before picking up the other,

Also, scout is terrible.
 
Trapping in combat is exceptionally difficult, and largely unrewarding. The time to legally arm a trap is 60 seconds minimum, even if it only takes you 12 out of game. This drops to 30 seconds if you have 20 ranks of Create Trap, but that requires 80 build for a Scout, and those build points are precious for a cross class. The fact that during the arming process any weapon blow will cause the trap to trigger and effect you and you alone makes them an unwieldy and unreliable method of fighting. Even 30 seconds is psychotically long to remain in place and totally vulnerable during active combat.

What's more, if your trap is not very, very obvious it's entirely possible that it going off would be completely unrecognized in the midst of several dozen people running around shouting damage calls. Further, every instance of a trap going off requires a hold to be called which badly disrupts the flow of combat. It's possible that people grow irritated with frequent holds as you plied your trapping.

I would strongly recommend against attempting to rely on traps in combat. Setting them up ahead of time is possible, but still carries several of the above difficulties, and still suffers from the fact that even when they work, traps aren't often that impressive. Despite having an area of effect there is no certainty the trap will hit more than one person, making the investment of build, coin, preparation in and out of game and luring an enemy into the trap extremely unattractive from an opportunity cost perspective. Again, I strongly recommend against planning on making extensive use of traps for combat purposes.

In my play experience, Scout ends up playing as a back tier fighter with opportunistic damage via backstabs and the ability to stand up to really dangerous enemies due to a plethora of defensive options, making them great at working as part of a team to bring down a high body foe, mixing up defensive and offensive combat to fill any role needed, and buying time for others to make a getaway... or come to the rescue. Scouts do not have the top end damage of fighters or rogues, do not have a rogue's cheap access to alchemy, and are often unwilling to spend build on limited use attack skills such as Slay, Assassinate or Stun Limb, since being spread too thin can prevent you from being effective at anything. Because of this, Scouts inherently lack the raw offensive punch of either of their parent classes, although when available magic items can fill that gap very effectively. It's worth noting that your race can do a lot to compliment your fighting style and enhance certain tactical options, and that playing to your strengths by being selective about what fights you wade into and what fights you skirt the edges of is at the very heart of playing the class over the course of an entire day.
 
Once the calling finds you, the question is not whether or not to play a Scout.

The question is what kind of Scout should you play?

To answer that question we'd need to discuss you some more. Feel free to PM with these if you don't want to post some of it. We'll get you sorted out and scouting in no time (regardless of which class you choose).

What style(s) of weapon fighting do you prefer?

How well do you throw?

How fast are you (on foot) compared to most of the players at your chapter?

What's the personality of the character you play?

How often do you play and what level are you planning on starting this character?

Are you part of a team and hang with them most of the time, not part of a team, or with a team but off on your own a lot?

Are you patient or kind of high energy and anxious most of the time (neither is good or bad)?

Gary
 
Here's my suggestion.

Build a 30th level Scout that has everything you want.

Then build an alternate Fighter and an alternate Rogue. If you want Legerdemain no matter what, factor that cost.

Ask yourself which of those three you'd rather be at that level, and then plan your advancement (either by fluid-classing or just splitting the whole way).

I wouldn't buy Assassinate or Slays as Scout (I'm not sure I'd even buy them if I was a pure whatever, they tend to be either dodged/parried/phased). In my experience, they're useful when you're getting mulched by a swarm of non-BBGs, but that's about it. If you're kiting, don't get mulched?
 
Here are some pure numbers for a scout, assuming you build a perfect 50/50 split between fighter and rogue.

Your archery damage is 2/3 of a comparably built fighter.
Your one handed melee damage is 40% of a comparably built fighter.
Your one handed melee damage from behind is 120% of a comparably built fighter
You will have roughly 40% of the parries of a comparably built fighter, but also have the same number of dodges and twice that number of evades.
Your slays and assassinates (if you buy them -- I wouldn't recommend it) are also about 40% of a fighter
You have almost exactly the same number of Ripostes
You have Terminates (slightly less than half as many as fighters have eviscerates) which have the major advantage that they are much less likely to be deflected by a Magic Armor, because of the lack of warning (disadvantage: can't be reused).

The short version of the above is you give up damage primarily to get dodges and evades.

Compared to rogues:
Archery damage is nearly identical
One handed damage is infinitely higher (from the front)
One handed damage from behind is roughly 5/8 of a rogue
40% as many dodges and evades (but you do have parries)
Slay and assassinate damage is 40%
Almost same number of Ripostes
You have Eviscerates (in the same proportions) that can be used from in front with melee weapons

Hope that is useful

-MS
 
Thanks a lot for the replies. It's a lot of good stuff to think about.
 
While I find mike's number breakdown useful, scout is not about being the most effective guy, it's about being the most effective and the most awesome.

Actually, ignore that.

Scout is terrible.
 
I think I'm going to go with scout if for no other reason than it elicits such an emotional response from both sides.
I don't care so much about being the most efficient fighter or doing the most damage. I want to roleplay and secondarily help out the team with some damage and causing headaches for enemy squads. I've played MMO RPGs and tabletops where it's all about maximizing damage with the end goal of "winning", but I'm LARPing to roleplay. I like the thought of being a class that most people don't like :p
 
With an attitude like that, I think you'll do just fine. It's all about fun, not min/maxing. Which, as the former raid leader of a server-leading progression guild for four years running, I definitely appreciate.

I started as a Scout, not knowing about the fluid class system. Then I was a rogue to pick up things like alchemy and legerdemain but then I ended up heading back to straight fighter once I started stacking damage. I have a new player who is going to end up going fighter for six months or so before learning celestial magic and eventually ending up a celestial templar.
 
I strongly recommend using the fluid class "slide," as has been mentioned. Get your skills on one side (be a fighter swinging 5s or 6s or rogue swinging 10s for example) and then start buying some skills on the other side. You'll have more skills at lower levels, and then branch out as you get bigger.
 
I will point out, though, it might be hard buying a backstab as a fighter when two profs costs the same. I know it gets you access to dodges and the like and it balances out once you actually shift to scout, but it would be really tempting for me to just buy more profs. There was a time when my fighter was supposed to be a scout.
 
Awesome input. It's been helpful. So you guys who have switched your class around, how does that work? I assume there will be some waste or extra point cost to go between classes?
 
Basically, you can switch your class at any time, as long as the switch wouldn't cause your current build to go into a negative.

For example, I can't go from Scholar to Templar unless I have enough build to cover the sudden increase of cost to my spell slots or Formal levels, doing so would leave me with negative available build.
 
Basically, when you want to start sliding to one of the cross classes, just start buying skills from the other skill set. If you tell your logistics person that you want to slide when you can and check back with them often-ish, they'll just do that for you when it can happen.

In general, my advice is to grab a full basic set of one class first, then work on the other set. That will see you being much more effective in the 1-10 level range. By then, you'll probably have picked up a couple of trinkets at least. Once you've done that, start working on your second skill set. If you follow that method, then once you've spent around 30 build on your secondary skill-set, you should be set to slide.
 
I would start fighter, buy all your weapon skills then buy 4 profs and whatever skills you are going to get from the profs (2 parries and a riposte would be my suggestion) and then buy backstabs. You'll flow to scout around your second backstab, just in time to buy your first dodge.

But, BEWARE of slays! Stay away from buying them, at least for now.
 
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