Shield Size Increase

Do you feel that the increase of Shield size is, overall, good?

  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .
Saephis

Saephis

Squire
Back by @Cedric -demand...
Cedric said:
Sounds like time for another Saephis poll.... :)
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...today I'm going to badger you with another poll about Shield Sizes.

Weapon, Armor, and Combat Changes
  1. Shields and Armor
Shields are now much easier to measure. Any size shield may be used in Alliance combat, so long as it is safe and reasonably considered a “shield” by a Rules Marshal – no trying to pick up a picnic table and using it as a “shield”! With this change, the Turtling rules are removed from the game (head and other unsafe shots are of course still illegal!).

When working with these new Shield rules, please remind your playerbase that there are many ways to get around players using Shields:

  • The Shatter and Disarm weapon skills will now Shatter or Disarm a shield when they strike it

  • The Shatter and Disarm spells can be also used to remove Shields from usability

  • Teamwork is always the most effective way around a shield; two people working together can always flank around a shield, or a spellcaster and a fighter working together to force their target to choose between taking packets and taking weapon blows, and so forth.
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There's been some discussion around 'is this safe', 'is this needed', and 'should weapons scale with player size', so let's get some input. There's a lot of on-and-off topic discussion in this thread, but please keep this thread's topic on physical Shields only.
 
These are helpful! Thank you!
 
I replied with "it isn't necessary," but that doesn't actually reflect my opinion. My opinion is that it makes the game less enjoyable. At the moment, I think it will primarily make the game less enjoyable for NPCs (which is always a segment of our population that you don't want to make the game less fun for). With the new lower damage rules and one-swing powerful blows in 2.0, I also think it will make the game less enjoyable for PC fighters.

-MS
 
I voted "Yes."

I will probably never use a shield as my present PC, but I understand a lot of people do, and I think the currently stringent shield regulations are unnecessary. I think sizes will be self-regulating, as people realize that huge shields are unwieldy, and also that there's a reason people call them "packet catchers." Essentially, I see no harm, and I love a wider and less movable target, if people want to hamstring themselves.
 
mikestrauss said:
I replied with "it isn't necessary," but that doesn't actually reflect my opinion. My opinion is that it makes the game less enjoyable. At the moment, I think it will primarily make the game less enjoyable for NPCs (which is always a segment of our population that you don't want to make the game less fun for). With the new lower damage rules and one-swing powerful blows in 2.0, I also think it will make the game less enjoyable for PC fighters.
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I replied the same as Mike, and I have the same thoughts he does on it, particularly on the "game will be less enjoyable" bit, especially with how Powerful Blows (shatter/disarm/stun limb) and with how Spells/Gas interact with shields (you take them if they hit). Bigger shield = bigger target for packets/powerful blows. I can see it turning new players off pretty handily.

I am not concerned about safety at this point.
 
I have no strong feelings about this, and will probably make a determination based on if there is a strong skew to this poll :)
 
As someone who spent last weekend trying to keep a shield within max size (math is hard), I'm in favor of either removing size restrictions or finding a way to make them simpler to adjudicate. I agree with those who have said that it's a self-balancing problem given how they interact with spells.

I'm not a fan, however, of the new way that Shatter interacts with shields. I already really dislike Shatter because of how disproportionately it affects lower level/newer players who don't have unshatterable magic everything. This change will only make it worse.
 
Avaran said:
I replied the same as Mike, and I have the same thoughts he does on it, particularly on the "game will be less enjoyable" bit, especially with how Powerful Blows (shatter/disarm/stun limb) and with how Spells/Gas interact with shields (you take them if they hit). Bigger shield = bigger target for packets/powerful blows. I can see it turning new players off pretty handily.
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I'm a big fan of letting people learn things through trial and error, but I can see how it could be frustrating for someone to spend a lot of time, money and energy on a Bad Idea. Probably a reminder in shield construction guidelines or the skill would help... After which point, if they still buy the skill and make the shield, that's a them problem/"learning experience..."

(I'm not a New Player Rep for a reason. >.> )
 
I'm indifferent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On one hand, building a shield to a size that 'feels right' would be a nice removal of some building-stress, but on the other ... I don't build them that often, at least in different sizes or shapes.

I think Safety will be kept in line with other existing rules and just comfort of using equipment

Turtling rules going away seems necessary, as an "attached change" to Shields, in my mind. We have more valid safety rules, and there's multiple sides to a person.

If this changes, I likely won't even make a new shield that's noticeably larger, as it just doesn't seem necessary. For reference, I'm not a small person at 6'4" barefoot.
 
I'm indifferent. I agree that I would be concerned about new players who invest a lot of money into a large shield and find out it's the worst idea ever. But we also let people use large longswords that are inefficient, but some players don't realize how badly they perform until they're actually participating.

Long story short? I always advise players to talk to the community about what works for them, and make educated decisions from there. I think the viewpoint that shields will be useless in the new system is vastly overblown. It's more accurate that they'll be less useful. A long-standing belief is that shields are one of the most OP skills in 1.3; there's a reason a ton of scholars invest 12 BP in them.

-A New Player Rep
 
The one good thing to come out of the shield change is not having to worry about size and having all kinds of wonky measuring methods.
 
My shield size would go unchanged. I picked up a wonderful custom board that I will be using regardless of what the maximum size is. If I hadn't, I'd maybe go up one inch on my shield size. I used to use a 26" round in Alliance, and I actively use a 27" round in Amtgard, Belegarth and Dagorhir. Any more than that and it would start to inhibit my mobility and shot selection. I find that a good number of folks in these games that already allow much larger shields don't often go overboard with them. They typically find themselves at a reasonable midpoint of protection and offensive performance. I voted yes because the experiences I have had with larger shields haven't been ridiculous, and I have noticed that people tend to realize that just because they can lug around a tower shield, doesn't mean they should. And when they do, it doesn't always have the degree of impact they'd expect.
 
I'm less worried about PCs using big shields and more worried about NPCs using shields so big that there aren't legal shot locations to be placed on them.

I play another LARP where this is very common and I find that this trend makes your sheet rather than your real skill more important than I prefer.

I find that the use of full body coverage tower shields increases head shots as people's should shots get deflected into heads, increase instances of charging because people get really close to attack around the shield, and increase frustration for players, especially those that are less mobile or in situations with doorways.

Finally, this feels like another rule that reduces melee fights and increases the reliance on spells, especially take out spells or anti fighter spells like shatter to play the game.
 
That's fair! I've only ever played a scholar, so by my perspective large shields make a fight easier, not harder. I do like the teamwork aspect of keeping a shield-user sandwiched between spells and swords, so they can't really appropriately use or discard their shield, but I can see the problems inherent in planning rules around availability of any particular kind of character.
 
Graham Wolsey said:
I'm less worried about PCs using big shields and more worried about NPCs using shields so big that there aren't legal shot locations to be placed on them.
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Aha, but that's what friends are for. Also spells. :)

I'm also now picturing shields that just curve to the point of being a (near-)complete sphere of shield around the "holder". Disarm drops it, but they're stuck in the middle. Hilarious.
 
Saephis said:
Aha, but that's what friends are for. Also spells. :)
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Friends are a crutch for the weak, be a templar if you want spells. :P

I'm also now picturing shields that just curve to the point of being a (near-)complete sphere of shield around the "holder". Disarm drops it, but they're stuck in the middle. Hilarious.
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Yeah except NPCs can have body weapons as shields that cant be disarmed... Though this does make for some interesting Turtle scavenger ideas....
 
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