Shields vs. Staffs for Blocking
- Thread starter Mendacity
- Start date
Wraith said:It will really heavily depend on your size, too. Being 6'5" and pretty broad-shouldered, an Alliance standard shield is pretty much useless to me as a blocking device unless I build a center-grip one that can move a lot. A spear (or staff, in this case) is much more effective as it gives me an actual chance to block shots to my legs as opposed to having to always be dodging.
Plus, shields are wonderful bullseyes for casters.
Yeah... I see what you mean. I'm 6'3", and although I'm not experienced fighting with a shield, I think that my legs would be a huge target for everyone, especially with a 2 hander.
Maxon, I'd love to see those build models, but only if you have them handy... don't put yourself out. Also, I was advised to do a min length staff... is that because I'd have better leverage on it to block with?
Also, given my height, I was thinking of making it longer than that, and maybe even max length and then using the ground all the time to jam it into when someone swings, basically making a pole that they hit so that leverage really isn't an issue... Just some musings, don't know if that would actually work, and the detriments of having a six foot stick on my back might outweigh the benefits. It would be kind of unwieldy sometimes.
One other question, looking at the build rules, it looks like the grip absolutely has to be separated in the middle, making to spots for hands. This seems worse to me if I'm going to use it as a blocking weapon. I think the best thing is just to playtest it to see the best locations for holding it to get good leverage.
Hammerfist
Artisan
Just wanted to chime in here as I actually really enjoy Sword and Shield and Two Weapon fighting. I am 6'3" and also not a skinny guy. Really with sheid it comes down to shield design and weight being able to move the shield up and down to cover the legs and the shoulder and can be done resonably well with a minimal amout of practice. However with two weapon it does require a bit more practice as it requires more movement in the off hand to block and proper form to actually be able to protect your off arm.
Basically I think it comes down to these two things.
1: Shield and Weapon: Easier to learn and be effective with and fun in its own way
2: Two weapon: Harder to learn but does add more styles/flavor to ones repertoire.
Basically I think it comes down to these two things.
1: Shield and Weapon: Easier to learn and be effective with and fun in its own way
2: Two weapon: Harder to learn but does add more styles/flavor to ones repertoire.
Dreamingfurther
Baron
John is right that shield is "easier" to use right off the bat. But it is true that I think Staff and Shortie would definitely be more unique/cool in some ways...
And while I could see why people would suggest not a max length Staff for blocking, especially if thinking about pvc staff weight issues I have build an ultralight staff that was only 4 or 5 inches off from max length and it was perfectly easy to wield and block with in one hand. Remember neither single end it going to be tougher to use than a spear for blocking, and people rave about that.
And while I could see why people would suggest not a max length Staff for blocking, especially if thinking about pvc staff weight issues I have build an ultralight staff that was only 4 or 5 inches off from max length and it was perfectly easy to wield and block with in one hand. Remember neither single end it going to be tougher to use than a spear for blocking, and people rave about that.
Shield can be tough for us bigger guys but with a good design and some practice I think it can be more effective in a pure blocking role than the spear/staff route. I find that you really have two main options for a good shield as a bigger guy. A Center grip with as big as you can easily move (for some that might not be full size) or a kite shield.
I went for a Kite and like it alot you can pretty easily get hte max in a single dimension off a kite without being capped by the area restrictions. It gives me enough space that I can pretty easily block dow to my mid calf though ankles are an issue after about ten years of fighting sword and board I'm pretty good at getting my feet out of the way.
Staff has a longer surface so blocking the feet would be a bit easier but less surface so arrows and any other blockable packets are tougher. Shield is also better against any thrusting attacks but most players will just swing. Less than max length will help with leverage on blocks this is really of questionable nescity dependant on how your chappter/playerbase treats blocking. Some people say as long as they hit your weapon before you its a legit block others say it has to stop the blow from making contact. Either way planting your staff on the ground will help but be ready to replace your tips every game as that adds alot of wear to them.
Really in the end there are too many pros and cons that are personal taste I think the best way to decide is to try out both a bit and see what you enjoy more and think about the image you want to project. I use a giant (max one hander size) hammer for image reasons I woudl be way faster and "better" with a sword but I like the image of the big hammer so I go with that. The look of your character should be more important that sqeezing every ounce out of your fighting style.
I went for a Kite and like it alot you can pretty easily get hte max in a single dimension off a kite without being capped by the area restrictions. It gives me enough space that I can pretty easily block dow to my mid calf though ankles are an issue after about ten years of fighting sword and board I'm pretty good at getting my feet out of the way.
Staff has a longer surface so blocking the feet would be a bit easier but less surface so arrows and any other blockable packets are tougher. Shield is also better against any thrusting attacks but most players will just swing. Less than max length will help with leverage on blocks this is really of questionable nescity dependant on how your chappter/playerbase treats blocking. Some people say as long as they hit your weapon before you its a legit block others say it has to stop the blow from making contact. Either way planting your staff on the ground will help but be ready to replace your tips every game as that adds alot of wear to them.
Really in the end there are too many pros and cons that are personal taste I think the best way to decide is to try out both a bit and see what you enjoy more and think about the image you want to project. I use a giant (max one hander size) hammer for image reasons I woudl be way faster and "better" with a sword but I like the image of the big hammer so I go with that. The look of your character should be more important that sqeezing every ounce out of your fighting style.
Maxondaerth
Squire
Grounding the ends of weapons in the dirt is a big no-no. You're wreck the thrustie on there and you're likely to get dirt and rocks stuck to it, which goes flying the next time you swing that weapon and gets in people's faces, which tends to tick em off OOG. The grips on staffs is a pain, but that's the rule for em. It just takes some getting used to.
I'll try and remember to type in and send ya those build lists/progressions on sunday, I'm trying to get packed up and out the door to an event at the moment and that takes priority!
As far as having it strapped to you all the time, I'd just not ever get it Spirit Linked/Locked and carry two short swords instead of just one, that way if you're cave crawling, running through brush, or getting tangled up with your big stick, just drop it and whip out the other sword, or even leave the big stick in your cabin when not wanted.
I'll try and remember to type in and send ya those build lists/progressions on sunday, I'm trying to get packed up and out the door to an event at the moment
and that takes priority! As far as having it strapped to you all the time, I'd just not ever get it Spirit Linked/Locked and carry two short swords instead of just one, that way if you're cave crawling, running through brush, or getting tangled up with your big stick, just drop it and whip out the other sword, or even leave the big stick in your cabin when not wanted.
Dreamingfurther
Baron
Angrydurf said:
That's awesome.
Funny thing is, your not the first Dwarf (I assume Dwarf) that I've heard doing that. I actually had a friend that for his first event made what some called a "dwarven two hander" It was a max length hammer with a HUGE head that after adding all the foam and duct tape literally didn't feel like it had an ultra light core anymore... lol But it looked cool as all heck.As far as "grounding" the staff it probably wouldn't be the best, and if you hold the end outwards at an angle for blocking your legs you should be able to stop swings before the hit your legs. The other part is that combat is supposed to be "lightest touch" so if someone is baseball batting at your legs hard enough to push aside a legit block, they are swinging too hard and you shouldn't take the damage and should probably ask them to tone it down a little bit.
It is true though that blocking weapons as opposed to shields are much wore against opponents with thrusting weapons, I actually got hosed recently going Longbow/Shortsword against a Spear/Shield combo. I couldn't block solid spear thrusts fast enough to save my life... luckily it was just a dual situation.
However as Maxonderth said probably %90 of people swing for their combat so this downside is probably negligible.vikingsurvivor
Newbie
Angrydurf said:
I can not agree more. It really boils down to personal preference. Ultimately go with what the character would forget about oog junk and "what is best" the best way is the way your character would do it. then practice that style/combo, if you practice you will get better at whatever style you go with.
I was (and still am) wicked excited when I saw the Arc rules clarification indicating that staff and short weapon is a valid fighting style. So much so that I'm thinking about taking staff with my spirit forge.
For the celestial Templar staff and short weapon is great because you could easily use your wand charges with Oak of the Arcane and you could use just the staff to break thresholds. Throw and extra long weapon on your hip and you have three fighting styles for all sorts of occasions. That said I'm planing on paying the extra five build to be able to use my trusty old shield as well when the occasion warrant's it (or I'm out of wand charges).
For celestial Scholars staff and short is cool but very expensive... Basically the cost of of a spell column expensive. If you're looking to become a Templar, cool... If not, I may think about stopping with just the staff and having another spell column and that many more charges and an extra point of damage with Oak of the Arcane.
- Sean / Gareth
For the celestial Templar staff and short weapon is great because you could easily use your wand charges with Oak of the Arcane and you could use just the staff to break thresholds. Throw and extra long weapon on your hip and you have three fighting styles for all sorts of occasions. That said I'm planing on paying the extra five build to be able to use my trusty old shield as well when the occasion warrant's it (or I'm out of wand charges).
For celestial Scholars staff and short is cool but very expensive... Basically the cost of of a spell column expensive. If you're looking to become a Templar, cool... If not, I may think about stopping with just the staff and having another spell column and that many more charges and an extra point of damage with Oak of the Arcane.
- Sean / Gareth
Dreamingfurther
Baron
Yea, just for the chance to switch things up and use elemental damage with the Staff and not just Wands I might even learn staff and fight with this style from time to time.