Spirit Bottle/Spirit Lock

[Draven]

I cannot normally use a Spirit Locked item on another person, unlike Spirit Link. However, if I am in possession of the person's Bottle, am I able to use them?

 

[phil90]

Hello Draven,

You can use someone's spirit linked item if you have their Spirit bottle.

from the ritual:

Note that since the spirit of the person will now reside in a bottle any spirit linked items will be attached to the bottle. The recipient of this ritual may only utilize spirit linked items if the body is in contact with the bottle. If someone else is in possession of the bottle, they may utilize the item.

 

[norman b]

Philippe, Evan is asking about Spirit Lock not Spirit Link.

I would say no due to the scroll stating:

"All properties given to the item via formal magic will only work for the person to whom it is Spirit Locked."

 

[phil90]

Thank you Norman. I would then agree with you as the items are intangible when the spirit is separated from the body and also for the reason you shared that it cannot be used by someone else

While the spirit is separated from the body, the item is intangible and invisible and will reform at the place of the spirit's resurrection.

 

[KyleSchmelz]

That text is also in the Spirit Link ritual. That's referring to when the spirit leaves the body for resurrection, not when the bottle is in someone else's possession - otherwise it would do the same with Spirit Linked items. The relevant part is "All properties given to the item via formal magic will only work for the person to whom it is Spirit Locked." Given the wording I'd say that the intent of the ritual is that the item will only work for the actual person to whom it's locked, not whoever happens to hold the spirit bottle.

I would also argue that the item itself is still tangible, still travels with the spirit, and one could still use it in its mundane capacity (the spirit locked pouch is still a pouch, the spirit locked sword is still a sword) but you don't gain the benefit of any of the rituals cast on it.

 

[norman b]

So along this same vein, Spirit Locked Celestial sword is with Spirit Bottle. Sword has Resist Destroy Magic. Someone hits carrier of bottle with Destroy Celestial Magic. Could the carrier of the sword use the Resist DM? I would say no. But to be honest, I don't know how Resist DM works...

 

[Alavatar]

Resist Destroy Magic is item specific and independent of the person carrying it. For instance, a Circle of Power with a Resist Destroy Magic would resist a Destroy Magic should it be the target of a Destroy Magic even though it is not technically a possession.

To answer Norm's quetion:

• Maybe. It depends what the target is for the Destroy Magic.
  • If the target was stated in the Dragon Magic incantation or during the ritual that is not the bottle or item in question, then no. The Resist Destroy Magic is a ritual effect locked to the Spirit of the Bottle, so a someone else in possession of the bottle does not have access to those rituals (being Spirit Locked and all)
  • If the target was stated in the Dragon Magic incantation or during the ritual that is the bottle or item in question, then yes. (See below for my assumptions)
  • If the target is not specified in the Dragon Magic incantation (because not specifying a target during the ritual is an auto-backlash), then, per Local Seattle rulings (link to discussion in the Seattle Rules Marshal forum for those who have access), I would call "flub" as we require Destroy Magic to follow Shatter/Destroy rules which require targets to be specified.

Here is my opinion based on how things work:

• Given that when a Spirit is targeted by a Destroy Magic all rituals on the Spirit are removed
• Given that when a Spirit has a Spirit Locked item a Destroy Magic to the subject's Spirit removes all rituals on the item associated with the Spirit Lock (unlike Spirit Link)
  
• Therefore, a Spirit Locked item with a Resist Destroy Magic would use the Resist Destroy Magic if the Spirit it is Locked to is targeted by a Destroy Magic.

 

[Draven]

Question answered and derailed.

Thanks, folks!

 

[Tantarus]

• If the target is not specified in the Dragon Magic incantation (because not specifying a target during the ritual is an auto-backlash), then, per Local Seattle rulings (link to discussion in the Seattle Rules Marshal forum for those who have access), I would call "flub" as we require Destroy Magic to follow Shatter/Destroy rules which require targets to be specified.

Umm this is not how it has been played in seattle or OR in the last few years. Are you sure. My understanding is if it is not specified as to which item, you got to pick one on your person if there are any legal targets. Much the same if someone has a Shatter carrier attack.

 

[MaxIrons]

Shatter, per the ARB does require some form of named target, so a Shatter carrier should name a target, even if the target is "thing". Rituals on the other hand aren't really designed to be Packet/Carrier delivered. Best practice seems to be (out in the PNW at least, check with your local plot team) that Destroy Magic should also have a voiced target "Spirit/Body/Item" to reduce confusion, and to show the proper target.

We're in muddy waters though, so please, PLEASE consult your local plot/marshal team for clarification in the cases of Rituals delivered in odd ways.

 

[Paladin of Time]

The question has been answered, so I'm (spirit) locking the topic. As always, feel free to discuss the vagaries of marshal calls on specifics as they differ between chapters in the appropriate forums!