Spirit Store and Domain of the Defiled

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kalindra

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Being a big ol' nerd, I was reading some rituals, and noticed a contradiction between Spirit Store and Domain/Haven. I think I might have to kick this to ARC if there isn't already a ruling (I didn't find one).

In the ARB, under the Spirit Store high magic ability it says:
"A living character in a golem is still considered “living” for the purposes of Desecrate and Domain of the Defiled."

This implies that a person Spirit Stored in a golem may enter a Haven of the Living, but not a Domain of the Defiled. Note that it does *not* say this in the Spirit Store ritual text.

However, the Domain of the Defiled ritual text says:
"A spirit which is stored into a golem may enter either a Haven or a Domain."

Which takes precedence? Given that the Spirit Store ritual doesn't agree with the high magic description I'm tempted to assume that the Domain ritual should be trusted and the high magic thing was an oversight.
 
Arguably taking them together there is no conflict.

Domain of the Defiled notes you may still enter a Haven or a Domain, Spirit store notes that a living person in a golem is still living, so taken together, it looks to me like anyone stored in a golem continues to be effected as normal as befitting their life or undeath. Since Domain specifically notes that it prevents living creatures from entering that resolves the conflict since Domain of the defiled specifies either a haven or a domain but does not say anything about bypassing the usual restrictions.

We may wish to kick this up to be resolved during the next ritual DB correction by adding a line or two.
 
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There was several instances of conflicts between the book and the scrolls. Although a bunch of them have been resolved with the new version of the ARB. In every one of those cases you've always taken the current scroll text over the book text.

I read this as a spirit stored Golem can enter either. Since the scroll specifically states "A spirit which is stored into a golem may enter either a Haven or a Domain.". I get where you're coming from Dave but, I think following the precedents set you'd have to go with the scroll text.

It looks like this change as added in 1.2 so the intent might have been to not allow you to enter the specific Haven/Domains. But, I still think you have to follow the scroll.

It's probably worth clarifying.
 
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Personally, I believe the intent of the text is to indicate that the magic of the ritual is Earth or Chaos, which golems are inherently immune to.

Per the scroll, golems simply don't care. The text indicate a golem is effectively immune to the ritual, just like they'd be immune to Drain or Turn Undead, regardless of whether a living creature or a lich is stored within one.

I agree it could be clearer, but like Alkalin, I believe the text should be interpreted as it is written...golems can enter either of them, uhindered.
 
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Personally, I believe the intent of the text is to indicate that the magic of the ritual is Earth or Chaos, which golems are inherently immune to.
I agree with your point overall (I think the intent is that a golem can go wherever they want), but just to nitpick, golems aren't completely immune to Earth and Chaos. They're immune to the Healing and Necromancy effect groups, neither of which include any form of ritual magic, necromantic or otherwise.
 
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Being a big ol' nerd, I was reading some rituals, and noticed a contradiction between Spirit Store and Domain/Haven. I think I might have to kick this to ARC if there isn't already a ruling (I didn't find one).

In the ARB, under the Spirit Store high magic ability it says:
"A living character in a golem is still considered “living” for the purposes of Desecrate and Domain of the Defiled."

This implies that a person Spirit Stored in a golem may enter a Haven of the Living, but not a Domain of the Defiled. Note that it does *not* say this in the Spirit Store ritual text.

However, the Domain of the Defiled ritual text says:
"A spirit which is stored into a golem may enter either a Haven or a Domain."

Which takes precedence? Given that the Spirit Store ritual doesn't agree with the high magic description I'm tempted to assume that the Domain ritual should be trusted and the high magic thing was an oversight.

I believe it is implied that while a Living spirit Spirit Stored in a golem is still considered Living for the purposes of Desecrate and Domain of the Defiled [and Haven of the Living], the implication is that an Undead spirit Spirit Stored in a golem is still considered Undead for the purposes of Sanctuary and Haven of the Living [and Domain of the Defiled]. The scroll text is the rule, the rulebook is clarifying the rule (i.e. Living spirit vs. Undead spirit).

At least, that is how I would rule it as a Marshal.
 
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If the intent was that a living person in a golem is living and an undead person in a golem is undead, I don't see why the Domain/Haven text would've been written the way it is. If you ignore the Spirit Store text, the only obvious, straightforward interpretation of "a spirit in a golem may enter either" is that a golem is not kept out by either ritual, regardless of their living/undead status when outside the golem.
 
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I believe it is implied that while a Living spirit Spirit Stored in a golem is still considered Living for the purposes of Desecrate and Domain of the Defiled [and Haven of the Living], the implication is that an Undead spirit Spirit Stored in a golem is still considered Undead for the purposes of Sanctuary and Haven of the Living [and Domain of the Defiled]. The scroll text is the rule, the rulebook is clarifying the rule (i.e. Living spirit vs. Undead spirit).

At least, that is how I would rule it as a Marshal.

It could see that being the intent. Especially with the change in the rulebook to reflect that. But, I feel like the scroll doesn't leave any room for interpretation. I feel like I'd have to go the other way.

If the intent was that a living person in a golem is living and an undead person in a golem is undead, I don't see why the Domain/Haven text would've been written the way it is.
This is probably a case of different people writing different parts of the rules. Bev and her team oversaw the ritual updates, which is probably where the current text comes from. Her intent may have been for this to be allowed. When 1.2 came out Bev wasn't involved in the game, no longer owned a chapter. Someone else probably didn't understand or intended to change it.

It's probably just best to get this clarified.
 
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Soooooo... shoot it up to ARC since there isn't a consensus?
 
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I think it is more a case of different rules being written at different times. I believe the Haven/Domain scroll text was written before High Magic. The only change to it in the last Ritual Update was the removal of the catalyst (I think). That is why I think the Rulebook has more authority than it is currently being given credit (IMO).
 
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Since there is reasonable disagreement, sending this to ARC.
 
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