Undead ritual & Golems

[Kogara]

What happens when a person who is currently spirit stored in a golem becomes the target of a transform to greater undead ritual.
Does
A. The person get ejected from the golem back to his/her body leaving the golem on its last orders
B. The person remains in the golem gaining the undead bonuses?
C. The person not effected because the ritual is necromantic. ( not sure it matters because its effect group ritual)
D. Golem crumbles and person becomes spectral

 

[norman b]

I would say C as the ritual is necromantic and they are immune to necromancy.

 

[jpariury]

No, it's been previously assessed that Necromancy aspect is not the same as Necromancy group.

 

[kalindra]

I'm not sure it follows that immunity to necromancy grants immunity to necromantic rituals, since the ritual effects aren't in the necromancy effect group any more than Earth aspect rituals are considered to be in the Healing effect group.

Also, immunity to necromancy is a property of the golem body, not of the person's spirit, and Transform to Greater Undead is a spirit-targeting ritual. You can certainly get turned undead and later Spirit Stored in a golem, so the effects are stackable. Therefore I'd say B, you stay in the golem and gain undead abilities.

Edit: jp beat me to it.

 

[Avaran]

No, it's been previously assessed that Necromancy aspect is not the same as Necromancy group.

Do you have a source link? I looked in ARC and couldn't find one. :/

Add to that, this isn't how I've seen it played (with golems or otherwise).

Consider Rit of ROE - it gives immunity to Necro and I've seen it ruled consistently on the field that those under a Rit of WOE are immune to Necro Rituals as well as spells and other effects. Unless Rit of WOE gives specific immunity to Necro Rits (I don't have a scroll handy)?

Edit: From Ritual of WOE scroll -
+12 To Difficulty, Difficulty 19, 14 Reagents, Level D: Immune to Necromantic effects, Arcane Solidify 2/Day, Immune to Vampire Charm, Immune to Fear, Temporary Stake of Woe

The bolded section above has always been the basis of characters under a Rit of WOE for saying "No" to Necro Rituals in my experience.

SEA/OR Rit Marshal

 

[norman b]

You can certainly get turned undead and later Spirit Stored in a golem, so the effects are stackable.

That's an order of operations. You can't be turned into a lesser undead while in a golem.

 

[kalindra]

I have always assumed rituals are not in an effect group because the ARB lists the stuff in the Necromancy effect group, and "necromantic aspect rituals" is not included. I have never seen it played that way, or for instance seen a High Ogre resist a ritual effect.

Having just looked up Ritual of WOE, here's what it says about that:

"Immunity to Necromantic effects. Negated effects include carrier attacks, battle magic, and monster abilities. The target replies "No effect" to attacks. This does not provide immunity to necromantic ritual effects."

 

[Draven]

Necromantic rituals are not part of the necromantic group. So the golem can be hit by it.

Undead is a creature type that, if I understand this correctly, would be suppressed by the golem creature type currently possessed by the character.

As a result, what I expect would occur would be

1. Transfer takes, but nothing is conveyed immediately to the character.
2. Once the character steps out of his golem, he stinks of undeath, and really hates Healing spells.

 

[kalindra]

That's an order of operations. You can't be turned into a lesser undead while in a golem.

True, but I was just making the point that you can have both rituals on your spirit, so there's no inherent incompatibility of the two rituals. This was more to answer the implied question of whether undead bonuses would stack, which I believe they would.

The Create Undead spell *is* specifically in the necromantic effect group, so the golem would be immune.

Edit: turns out they don't stack, never mind

 

[norman b]

The wording of Ritual of Woe actually pretty clearly sums it up.

 

[Alavatar]

E. The PC takes the Transform and their Body (wherever it is) is now undead, but the character only has the Body effects the Spirit currently inhabits (i.e. they still only have the Golem traits).

Reference for Immunity to Necromancy effects does not confer Immunity to Necromancy Rituals

Reference for only PC skills transfer to a Body, not Body abilities

P.S. The Transform ritual targets the Spirit, so only a person under the effect of a CSS would be immune to a Transform ritual (unless there is another wonky plot effect in play).

Seth Bird
SEA/OR Marshal