Uses of Goblin stamps

[jwconvery]

Starting a new thread. The plot thread has a lot going on, and this is more of a chapter issue.

Chapters need goblin stamps to encourage players to help out the chapter. There are not a lot of people donating weapons and props out of the goodness of their heart. Heck, there aren't a lot of people donating them for goblins. I don't believe the rulebook gives any guidelines for the uses of goblin stamps, everything is up to the discretion of the owner. Currently these are the uses for goblin stamps that I can think of: 30 free production, paying for your personal production, monthly goblin blanket, getting the build for a missed event, buying back deaths and buying magic items. The sticking point for people seems to be the last 2. I am going to quote Wes to start this thread but his was not the only voice speaking out. It was just the easiest quote to cover both issues.

The rulebook lays the guidelines for it, you can only buy back deaths in your "home" chapter, and there's technically no limit to how many you can buy back (other than gob restrictions). That being said, I see no reason why we can't simply deny players the service, or at the very least make the experience more enjoyable by incorporating some sort of plot based, in game mechanic so that it's not a "poof" and you can die again scenario. While we're on the subject of gobs, I think it's also a good idea to consider doing a similar system for buying magic items which will firstly decrease escalation and secondly make for a much better story than "Oh by the way, between market days I just so happened to find this ridiculously powerful item lying around." And if such a thing does happen, whoever used to own that item is probably looking for it, and should probably come to town to try and get it back. Not to mention the rulebook says nothing about being able to use gobs for magic items.

Buying back deaths, as Joe West said, is an Alliance-wide issue. Players are split, check the General Discussion board for the poll. Locally forbidding it would not prevent our player base from doing it, if they wanted to. Your 'home chapter' is simply the database that your character card resides in. If Idris dies a few times and I want to buy them back, but Somi forbids it. I just need to ask Chicago logistics to store my character. Then I send them some cash via PayPal to get gobbies and presto, I'm immortal. I never need to play in Chicago to do this. So the end result is Somi is out some cash. I would support an Alliance-wide change to the death buy-back policy, but not a Somi-only protest.

Wes mentioned installing a plot effect to make buying back deaths more in-game and enjoyable. Enjoyable for whom? The one who dies or the Plot/PC that killed them? Either way you are talking about more personal plot, an idea that has already been suggested as something to limit. Honestly I don't see how Idris buying back deaths affects Sloane's enjoyment of the game. Unless Sloane's enjoyment is perming Idris. Even then bag draws are secret, so Sloane couldn't think anything was wonky IG until the 12th death.

I agree with the dislike of death buy-backs, but I don't see it as something to spend my time worrying about until it comes up as an Alliance vote. On to magic items.

I have bought magic items with goblins, and I will most likely do it again once I am off plot. I know I am not the only one who has done this, including a few of the more vocal members of it's opposition. Buying magic items is a great reward for player's time and energy spent helping the chapter. Somi needs those volunteers, whether they are plot, NPCs, site clean-up, weapons donation or whatever. Without buying magic items, there is no 'big ticket' way to spend goblins.

If a player donates 1000 packets, they are going to get their monthly blanket for almost 3 years. Where is the incentive to donate more? We already have a fickle supply of NPC's, if you take away the IG reward for doing so, we'll have less. We need donations of polearms, costuming and packets but we can't expect players to do so without some form of compensation. As for the IG explanation as to why a PC has this new item, things happen in the mists all the time. People travel, find items, create items in other chapters and travel back. While the proliferation of magic items does change the game dynamic from what is was 10 years ago, I don't agree that it 'breaks the game'.

If you would like to remove the buying of MI's please suggest some alternative uses for goblin stamps, that don't involve more build. Somi needs those donations, and more of them.

I understand that a group of our players want a more hardcore game. This is a plot issue, and plot is listening. Some chapter policies are there for a reason. To help provide plot the resources to make the game more hardcore.

Thank you for your time.

-Joe

 

[StremthiWayfound]

I just wanted to say that I, too, have used goblins to buy magic items. I go around to local stores and buy cool things with real money to donate, so that plot can have more props to use to run a cool game. I donated a huge bin of packets. I have donated costuming. The list goes on. Yes, I do these things because I want to help the game, but I can't say that I would have done them to the extent I did, or honestly perhaps even at all, if there was no benefit at all of doing them. I am so busy in real life that my time spent outside of events to help the game has to have some sort of payoff, or it would just get pushed lower on my priority list and inevitably wouldn't happen. Judge me if you will, but I am just being honest.

I may be in a minority on this, but I do not think that magic items have ruined the game, made it less scary, or made it less "hard core." Magic items make the game more fun for me. It isn't that I wouldn't have fun without them, but I do enjoy having "toys" to play with. That said, I have talked to a couple of different people about the idea of having a lower power, lower magic alternate campaign where magic items would be less of a factor. I would definitely play in a game like that. I guess it's like the difference between Forgotten Realms and Eberron, on the one hand, and Dark Sun on the other. Both are equally valid and both can be scary and hard core. It just depends on how the particular campaign is run.

But in the end, the game needs donations to thrive--donations of time, money, costuming, weapons, packets, etc. etc. etc. And unless you would be using goblins to buy more personal plot--something that has come under fire--I don't see how else to encourage the high level of donations that SoMI has enjoyed.

Joe / Stremthi

 

[jwconvery]

Just adding in the fact that my posts are coming from my opinion. Not a ruling from 'the powers that be'

I personally do not feel buying back deaths is worth arguing about.

I personally have no issue with goblin stamping Magic Items. If we can find a seperate motivator to get people to turn things in, and doante their time great. Until then, I see no issue.

-Joe

 

[Noni]

When I first started play Nero we couldn't buy magic items with goblins. If we could, I was naive to it. However, I donated stuff to the chapter every time I played. I did this because I cared about my chapter. I view Nero/Alliance and my chapter like a public company. We all have a stake in it and it is everyone's responsibility to make it cool. I think it is great to be rewarded in some way for supporting your chapter, but if "big ticket ' items are the only way to get people to donate then something is seriously wrong.

When I helped run the last event, I didn't do it with any reward or pay back in my mind. I did it to support the plot team and give them a break. I did it to entertain my friends. I did it because I care about the game, the people who run it, and the people who play it.

I also want to address this:

Wes mentioned installing a plot effect to make buying back deaths more in-game and enjoyable. Enjoyable for whom? The one who dies or the Plot/PC that killed them? Either way you are talking about more personal plot, an idea that has already been suggested as something to limit. Honestly I don't see how Idris buying back deaths affects Sloane's enjoyment of the game. Unless Sloane's enjoyment is perming Idris. Even then bag draws are secret, so Sloane couldn't think anything was wonky IG until the 12th death.

I personally enjoy anytime we can take some thing from an out of game perspective (buying back deaths) and bring it in game. I think Wes's idea is a good one. I think it could lead to a cool TEAM mod that would be very emotionally charged because you would feel like it was a matter of life or death. I don't think going on a mod once in a while that focuses on a specific player is the same as personal plot. It is one mod. Not multiple.

I do NOT at all advocate buying back deaths, as I am strongly against it. However, if it is going to be a part of the game I think bringing it in-game could make it a little more tolerable.

Alison

 

[jwconvery]

When I first started play Nero we couldn't buy magic items with goblins. If we could, I was naive to it. However, I donated stuff to the chapter every time I played. I did this because I cared about my chapter. I view Nero/Alliance and my chapter like a public company. We all have a stake in it and it is everyone's responsibility to make it cool. I think it is great to be rewarded in some way for supporting your chapter, but if "big ticket ' items are the only way to get people to donate then something is seriously wrong.

It would be great if everyone felt that way Alison. I think the simile of a public company is a great comparison. The chapter as a whole would benefit if everyone pitched in to make it better. Obviously not everyone feels the way you do Alison, or else we would be overrun with costuming, npcs and 2-handed weapons. Perhaps there is a better reward system we can put into place. I don't know what it is. I am all for further limiting purchases or removing 9th level activates. I just think, realistically, people need a motivator to donate. I really wish I could goblin blanket an alt in Somi without removing it form Idris, but I guess that is forbidden from 'on-high'

I personally enjoy anytime we can take some thing from an out of game perspective (buying back deaths) and bring it in game. I think Wes's idea is a good one. I think it could lead to a cool TEAM mod that would be very emotionally charged because you would feel like it was a matter of life or death. I don't think going on a mod once in a while that focuses on a specific player is the same as personal plot. It is one mod. Not multiple.

I guess I disagree. I don't like buying-back deaths. I don't plan to do it, and I don't want the chapter to have to use anymore resources on the people that do want to buy them back. I would rather that time/energy be spent on whatever the plot of the month is, and we don't remind everyone IG that Idris just bought his death back. I understand it would feel a little more tolerable to you if it was IG, but to me it feels more invasive. If it's going to happen, don't tell me. Just change the number on the card and move on.

My personal thoughts.
-Joe

 

[Steve]

Wes mentioned installing a plot effect to make buying back deaths more in-game and enjoyable. Enjoyable for whom? The one who dies or the Plot/PC that killed them? Either way you are talking about more personal plot, an idea that has already been suggested as something to limit. Honestly I don't see how Idris buying back deaths affects Sloane's enjoyment of the game. Unless Sloane's enjoyment is perming Idris. Even then bag draws are secret, so Sloane couldn't think anything was wonky IG until the 12th death.

Scenario: Black dragon comes into town. Asks for help killing a self-proclaimed "dragon slayer" who is another PC in town. Enslaves me and tells me to help him. I must agree, so I lure said PC into the woods, and the dragon and I roll him like a drum. Said PC ressurects and comes after me in the middle of town where everyone has seen me being enslaved. He won't listen to town and attacks me. I survive and tell him I'm going to come back to town with my crew and outright murder his *** until he perms. He vows the same. I come back with my crew. His doesn't show. My crew and I kill him. Four times. He pulls them all safely and the event ends. We both now have a very large stake in the others death count, and his/her ability to buy back deaths. He has tons of gobs, and I realize that every death I just dealt out doesn't even matter. All of those resources I spent, all of the cards I called in, they mean little to nothing because he's able to erase each well-planned death. I have a problem with that.

Scenario: I challenge a PC to an Honor Duel because he has insulted my honor, and my honor means a great deal to me. I kill him in front of the entire town, and his wounded ego and perpensity for whinyness sends him crying to the chapter owner. He threatens to quit and the owner, who doesn't want to lose his business, "forgets" to put that death on his card. I now think something is "wonky" long before he's reached twelve deaths.

Both scenarios are completely true. Now luckily, in the first scenario, both of us were hardcore and we agreed as a gentlemanly deal not to buy back deaths until our little "disagreement" was over (as it should be done, though rare to find people willing). The second was a sad day for me as a Nero player, and while that was not Tom, I have forever since been apprehensive towards death-buybacks, as recording the number of deaths becomes a very grey, "wonky" area.

Also, when many PC's know they can buy back their deaths, a level of fear and caution goes out the window. Their roleplay is affected, the realism of the game is lowered, and in turn, my game enjoyment suffers. When PC don't fear dying because they can buy their death back, the game atmosphere does change. The fear does usually fade.

I have bought magic items with goblins, and I will most likely do it again once I am off plot. I know I am not the only one who has done this, including a few of the more vocal members of it's opposition. Buying magic items is a great reward for player's time and energy spent helping the chapter. Somi needs those volunteers, whether they are plot, NPCs, site clean-up, weapons donation or whatever. Without buying magic items, there is no 'big ticket' way to spend goblins.

Guilty as charged. As my good buddy Ice-T always says, "Don't hate the playa, hate the game." I don't hate the game, though, I'm just trying to change it. Buying copious amounts of huge magic items for gobs makes me feel kinda dirty as a player, don't get me wrong. But there are only so many brood mods I can fail before I realize my six purifies(from memory)just don't cut it anymore.

I would like to mention that buying back deaths has always been a chapter policy wherever I played Nero. This is not a dig on Tom. Hell, I even bought a few deaths back in my first year or two of playing. I just remember it being very expensive to do such, and it was on a sliding scale depending on how many times you'd done it, and how many deaths you were currently at. If buying back your 10% death costs 1000 goblins, I'm a happy little player. If a player donates that much and/or NPC's long enough to earn that amount, I know that s/he has outweighed the dig I think buying deaths back brings. If I had my drothers, there wouldn't be an option. But if you tell me the price is 2000 gobs per death, I'll shut right the hell up. =)

On that note, I think that is a good compromise as well; raise the gob prices of items. Make that 3/day Prison item that lasts for a year a big deal, instead of an blip on the magic-item saturated radar. Wow, see. I can change my opinion. We don't have to get rid buying deaths or magic items with gobs. Just raise the prices on both a fair amount, and be stingy and fair with gobs allocation. I remember the day when it took five packets just to get you one gob, afterall...

Steve

 

[jwconvery]

Also, when many PC's know they can buy back their deaths, a level of fear and caution goes out the window. Their roleplay is affected, the realism of the game is lowered, and in turn, my game enjoyment suffers. When PC don't fear dying because they can buy their death back, the game atmosphere does change. The fear does usually fade.

I completely agree. I hate buying back deaths. I am just against trying to 'fix it' within Somi only. People have brought up a lot of great points in these discussions, and I'd like to focus on some of the others. I just don't think a local protest is a good idea for the chapter. Death buy-back sucks. We can all agree on that. However, it's not going to change unless we get all the other chapters to agree as well. By evidenced in the general forums, the marjority of players like buying back deaths. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If some player wants to be immortal in Somi, let them. At least we'll get the donation he turns in, until the policy can change Alliance-wide.

On that note, I think that is a good compromise as well; raise the gob prices of items. Make that 3/day Prison item that lasts for a year a big deal, instead of an blip on the magic-item saturated radar. Wow, see. I can change my opinion. We don't have to get rid buying deaths or magic items with gobs. Just raise the prices on both a fair amount, and be stingy and fair with gobs allocation. I remember the day when it took five packets just to get you one gob, afterall...

Sounds reasonable, I'm sure Tom will have to figure out the exact pricing. I would prefer removing the 'top-tier' stuff from goblin stamping entirely, rather then jacking up all the prices, but either works I guess. I am all for people having to work for their rewards. I am just against taking the rewards away.

Would you be in favor of making the changes to policy retroactive? So if we remove 9th level activates, or DA 3's, or full AA's would you be in favor of re-doing those tags already given out? Obviously it's a logistical nightmare, but I think it would help 'clean the slate' magic item wise. I don't know how you'd 'back charge' people for higher prices. Maybe we could have a chapter-wide 'turn-in' during the off season. People turn in their LCO stuff, it get re-evaluated for cost spent and then they can 're-buy'. Figure out some incentive for doing so, I don't know what though. Whole process gives me a headache, but we'd have to do something, otherwise we wouldn't see a change IG for another 3-4 years when the current items expire. Then the new players just get the shaft.

My personal thoughts,
-Joe

 

[Steve]

Would you be in favor of making the changes to policy retroactive? So if we remove 9th level activates, or DA 3's, or full AA's would you be in favor of re-doing those tags already given out? Obviously it's a logistical nightmare, but I think it would help 'clean the slate' magic item wise. I don't know how you'd 'back charge' people for higher prices. Maybe we could have a chapter-wide 'turn-in' during the off season. People turn in their LCO stuff, it get re-evaluated for cost spent and then they can 're-buy'. Figure out some incentive for doing so, I don't know what though. Whole process gives me a headache, but we'd have to do something, otherwise we wouldn't see a change IG for another 3-4 years when the current items expire. Then the new players just get the shaft.

Retroactive seems incredibly difficult and shaky. What happens if someone chooses not to turn them in? What if a PC comes back a year later and doesn't realize the change was made? While in a perfect world that'd be neat, I feel like that's a whole mess that wouldn't be worth it.

A very simple way to deal with the current/past magic item surplus? Take the Spirit Lock off all of those Gob bought items. This has actually always been a compromise I've thrown out there. I've seen plenty of PC's rez where they wouldn't be able to get their items back. Unfortunetly, all of those items are auto-stuck, and so there's no way to really deprive those PC's of those items save DM'ing their spirit. When a PC knows that his items could very well be stolen every time he or she drops, that PC will be a lot more cautious (enter fear). While it might suck to donate a bunch of stuff and then lose those items, that is, IMO, part of the game. If the PC is really afraid of losing the item, make Spirit Link and Spirit Lock a high priced gob addition to each item. Tom's agrument against this (and I'm obviously paraphrasing) revolves around PC's buying items with their gobs and then giving them to other PC's, specifically plot getting the mad gob hook-up and then outfitting their group. In my opinion, that's totally fine with me. Afterall, if they're our gobs for things we do/give, if we want to create an item and give it to our friends, isn't that our right? And if plot really gets so many gobs that they could churn items out to their group in an unfair fashion, turn the auto-lock option on for them while they run and turn it off later when they're done. I remember when Spirit Link was a highly sought after ritual. Now we're practically clothed in Linked/locked gear.

Steve

 

[StremthiWayfound]

I like the point raised by Wes and Alison--that if there is to be death buy backs, why not make it an in-game thing. I agree with Alison that it could be a cool team experience that is emotionally charged. Heck, why not just take this out of the goblin realm altogether, and allow the PCs to seek out assistance from the plane of life to help them strengthen their spirit? Let them quest for it in game, if their characters want to live forever. I wouldn't see a problem with this, because the character (and his team) would be continuously putting himself/herself/themselves in harms way in hopes of wiping a death, and might suffer another in the process. Perhaps the task to buy back the first death is only moderately difficult, but they escalate with every buy back. Who knows. But the point is that I don't see an issue with doing this as an in-game thing, and actually think it could add a lot.

I tend to agree with Joe that if you took away the reward for donating things, many people would no longer do it. It is laudable, Alison, that you have made donations of your time, money, and energy without the thought of reward, but I do not think that goes for the majority. There needs to be some kind of goblin system, and the goblins need to get you something cool. Perhaps the system needs to be tweaked, but there definitely needs to be a system with real rewards to make it worth people's IRL time and money. That's my take.

On Steve's point, if there is going to be a goblin death buy back, I don't see a problem with increasing the cost. My recollection, Steve, is that the first couple deaths, going way, way back in time to NERO Great Lakes, were always pretty cheap to buy back. I didn't play a ton in the Seth or Brooks eras, though, so they could have been more expensive during those time frames. Why not 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, no further buy backs? Or why not make it related in some way to how long you have been playing the game or how many events you have played as that character? So a new player who makes mistakes and gets pwned 6 times in his first couple events can wipe some of those deaths with some moderate donations. But someone who has been playing the game for 15 years must pay a larger toll to get the same reward? Just some thoughts off the top of my head to make sure a new player wouldn't get hosed.

On Steve's other point, I also don't disagree with tweaks to the magic item buy pricing. There needs to be a balance, though, between increasing the prices to allow some slow down / power down (if that is the will of the people and Tom), on the one hand, and continuing to encourage donations on the other. In other words, I don't think the answer is to make a 9th level activate cost 10,000 goblins, or no one would try for it. That could hurt the chapter because people wouldn't donate as much. What the exact numbers would need to be will obviously be a challenge to select. But my take is that items that change game play on a larger scale should legitimately cost more. What difference does it make to the game that fighter guy swings 8 instead of 7, or even 10 instead of 7. Very little, in my opinion. But give that guy 5 cure mort or purify activates and the game just changed. Damage auras should be available and less expensive, I think, than powerful activates. I am also not opposed to the idea of making a spirit link / spirit lock a separate goblin purchase, with an appropriate cost. Good suggestion, Steve.

I don't think there is a way to do the goblin changes retroactively, although I fully admit that I have a conflict of interests on this point (as do most of the people who are posting on these subjects). Even retroactively taking away just spirit locks is a bad idea, I think, because it allows these super powerful items created under the old, perhaps somewhat more magic item friendly system go out into general circulation, as opposed to disappearing when the player perms. It could create the opposite of the effect that people here seem to be calling for (limiting or reducing magic items).

All of that said, I see Joe's point that a change now won't do anything for 3 or 4 years, and will only hurt new players. I don't know how to remedy that situation, except other than perhaps creating some benefit to turning stuff in voluntarily or taking it away involuntarily. I don't think the answer, though, is to mess with only goblin buy items, because that disproportionately punishes those people who have helped out the most. If there is to be a change to the magic item system, which seems to be what some people are calling for, then let it be global, not just impacting goblin buys.

 

[jwconvery]

Retroactive seems incredibly difficult and shaky. What happens if someone chooses not to turn them in? What if a PC comes back a year later and doesn't realize the change was made? While in a perfect world that'd be neat, I feel like that's a whole mess that wouldn't be worth it.

Oh yeah, an awful headache. I think worth at least exploring to help 'reset' if we do a massive policy change. We could just check in items a little more carefully then we do right now, if it has a Spirit Lock on it and LCO to Somi. It doesn't work, explain why and hand them the conversion sheet. Give a grace period, so people can play while they decide how to re-spend. Encourage them to change out the items during downtime, as we aren't going to deal with at the logistic table of an event.

I know it's rough to implement, but I think it would be easier to enact a change if it was retro-active. It's tough to say to Tom, "I got mine, but we should really change this policy." I know you were just purchasing purifies or whatever in response to the plot. I think our pettition to change things might hold more weight if we were prepared to put our activates where our mouths are. Even if we dont' get everyone, if we get the consistant players to do so as a show of good faith, it might go pretty far. Although I can't speak for Tank, I am betting he would happily lower the monster cards if everyone adjusted their items.

A very simple way to deal with the current/past magic item surplus? Take the Spirit Lock off all of those Gob bought items. This has actually always been a compromise I've thrown out there. I've seen plenty of PC's rez where they wouldn't be able to get their items back. Unfortunetly, all of those items are auto-stuck, and so there's no way to really deprive those PC's of those items save DM'ing their spirit. When a PC knows that his items could very well be stolen every time he or she drops, that PC will be a lot more cautious (enter fear). While it might suck to donate a bunch of stuff and then lose those items, that is, IMO, part of the game. If the PC is really afraid of losing the item, make Spirit Link and Spirit Lock a high priced gob addition to each item. Tom's agrument against this (and I'm obviously paraphrasing) revolves around PC's buying items with their gobs and then giving them to other PC's, specifically plot getting the mad gob hook-up and then outfitting their group. In my opinion, that's totally fine with me. Afterall, if they're our gobs for things we do/give, if we want to create an item and give it to our friends, isn't that our right? And if plot really gets so many gobs that they could churn items out to their group in an unfair fashion, turn the auto-lock option on for them while they run and turn it off later when they're done. I remember when Spirit Link was a highly sought after ritual. Now we're practically clothed in Linked/locked gear

I would support making Spirit link/lock cost some gobbies. I don't think it should be a 'pick' similar to how extends currently don't count. However, I do see the concern of Plot 'hooking-up' their team. Especially if they were still running when they buy the item, after they are done running I am less concerned. That person helped out the chapter, and wants to help out their team so the everyone benifits. In fact I think if someone spread out their purchases to their team, rather then making one 'Super dude' might be kinda cool. Your suggestion of it being linked while they run makes sense, but that might get a little confuseing as to 'who bought what' in a teams' pile of tags if different members join and leave plot. Good idea, not sure how to implement it. Written in the Flaws? Description? Name? Call the item "Idris' Ring of power" and everyone knows what that means.

I kinda had to chuckle about your comment of "While it might suck to donate a bunch of stuff and then lose those items, that is, IMO, part of the game." I gobb'd up a super wand before we went north to fight Terror. Beat Terror came home, and the next event was those DFM-ing lizards. Munch, munch, munch goes 13 rits while Doug F. rezzes me. Which I bring up, not for sympathy but to suggest another change to the policy.

No free effect for NPC-ing one event. Everyone gets a limited number of effects to purchase based on the number of events that have been run. NPC's, in addition, get a free effect for NPC-ing. I support rewarding those people who NPC, but getting a 30pt 5yr AA for NPC-ing one event seems really lucative. I suggest slightly upping the Goblin reward for NPC-ing, and continuing to give them an additional pick, but that must be bought with Goblins. I think that would encourage NPC's to stay for a longer term, rather then just drop in's. Plus it would give a little leeway to reward for those NPCs who do stay a whole season. Maybe they get a free effect, or something.

My personal thoughts,

-Joe

 

[jwconvery]

I like the point raised by Wes and Alison--that if there is to be death buy backs, why not make it an in-game thing. I agree with Alison that it could be a cool team experience that is emotionally charged. Heck, why not just take this out of the goblin realm altogether, and allow the PCs to seek out assistance from the plane of life to help them strengthen their spirit? Let them quest for it in game, if their characters want to live forever. I wouldn't see a problem with this, because the character (and his team) would be continuously putting himself/herself/themselves in harms way in hopes of wiping a death, and might suffer another in the process. Perhaps the task to buy back the first death is only moderately difficult, but they escalate with every buy back. Who knows. But the point is that I don't see an issue with doing this as an in-game thing, and actually think it could add a lot.

Part of the Cheese factor in my opinion for death buy-back is spending the RL money to remove a large part of the IG consequences. A half/half with goblin stamps then a quest seems to cause the chapter resources that could be better served else-where IMO, without removing the cheese. I help run logistics so I have goblin stamps to never die, hey Tank I need that sipirt quest thingy. Is still kinda cheesy IMO. The idea of it being completely IG, has merit to me. Then the option to strengthen your spirit is available to everyone playing regardless of RL resources. There would need to be some equality in the quests person to person, and it should have a real threat of other people rezzing to accomplish it, thrown arcane shatter spirits, create/walk and circle resses in full effect. Only to make sure it's an Epic, call in your favors, unscaled thing that requires you to have some friends to make happen, AND their is no requirement for plot to cater to your whim for that quest on the spot. Just like any other personal/team plot, it make take time to fully accomplish.

My personal thoughts,
-joe

 

[TadRon]

I personally think that too much emphasis is being put into MI's and Gobbies. Sure buying back deaths may sound like they make super soldiers, but I don't believe this is the case. Most people I have ever seen perm in this game have done so with a 10% chance to do so. So even if you buy back deaths you are always going to have to pull. I know it will be a lesser chance to perm but I don't think that should be the focus of the game either. The focus of the game is supposed to be the interaction with other PCs, the story of the weekend, and ROLE PLAYING. I for one love a good bit of combat and fear to the game as well. But I don't think that magic items and buy backs make the lack of fear in the game. But again this is just my opinion.

I remember last year when we had the dark elf war, two of my guildmates permed, and we were in constant fear. Ezra and the draconians together rained destruction upon the town at any time they felt like it. Nobody was safe from their wrath. The only way we finally won was to work together as a team. It was not any single person doing it, and it didn't come from a slew of magic items. It came from the fact that people communicated and worked together. Granted the people that didn't still did rez as well.

This year may have been the first year in a long time that I haven't felt just overwhelming fear from SoMI. But I don't think it has anything to do with MI's and the like. I think some of it was the events where the plot team had 2-3 npcs. Hard to make that fearful no matter who the NPCs are. Unless you have a very small amount of PCs. But if you have a ton of PCs and no npcs it doesn't matter the power level, the npcs are still going to get circle beat and die.

I still think that we should be focused on like Doug said, getting the atmosphere back first. I feel like if we used this board to talk about the stuff we want to do as decoration, or things of that nature it would help the game more. New people that come to the game will be more awed by the fact that it looks like a medevil town than who has what magic items. And if the people that are powerful in town aren't jerks and pick on little folks and let them have some fun too, then I don't see all this being an issue anymore.

We just need to get back to actually roleplaying at events, put less emphasis on combats etc even though I love them, and help plot and the npcs as much as we can. More people need to do IBGA's so plot knows what we want to see. And we all should team up to decorate the camp like Doug suggested. If I am wrong about any of this I am sorry. And none of it was meant to be bad or mean. Was all meant as contructive stuff. I have seen many fights no matter how powerful people are go bad due to ingenuity, or lack of. So again I don't think its the MI's or even the gobbies. Like Doug said..we just all need to stop being lazy, quit complaing, and get back to where we once were.

 

[Rezzik (NWC)]

If you look in the Alliance monster manual, you will find that most monsters are statted to deal with magic items. Even an APL 8-10 monster can have a carrier attack, immunities and resists. Usually this accompanied with 2-3 packet attacks. If you have a group of 8 npcs' and give them each 2 or 3 pops to run the encounter it would decimate a group of PCs if they don't have magic items. Magic items keep the players from running out of resources and hiding in the tavern until logistics. The less resources the players have, then the less things you can throw at them from monster camp. Magic items end up being the ultimate equalizer between players and monsters. I would hate to take that away from them.

As to buying back deaths, I hate seeing players perm. How many people do you know who have permed and then quit the game, or took a long hiatus? The penalty for perming is huge, and players have so much invested in their character. Do we really want to make a game more deadly when dying has such drastic ramifications on the game? I wish every player could roll with the perm and just create a new toon, but it doesn't seem to happen that way. Taking away the ability to buy back deaths will probably just end up losing more players.

 

[Noni]

I just want to be clear on my opinions about goblin stamps. In response to my post, Joe West said:

I tend to agree with Joe that if you took away the reward for donating things, many people would no longer do it. It is laudable, Alison, that you have made donations of your time, money, and energy without the thought of reward, but I do not think that goes for the majority. There needs to be some kind of goblin system, and the goblins need to get you something cool. Perhaps the system needs to be tweaked, but there definitely needs to be a system with real rewards to make it worth people's IRL time and money. That's my take.

I DO think people should be rewarded for donating things to the game. I agree that if there weren't rewards, people wouldn't donate. I didn't post my opinion to sound nobel or anything like that. I have bought a **** LOAD of magic items with goblin stamps. The reason John and I don't donate Ultra Lights is because we feel the dollar cost far out weighs the amount of goblins you get in return.

My point was that I think it would be really sad if the ONLY reason people were donating things to their chapter was to get something in return. Nero/Alliance isn't some major money making corporation where people should be entitled to something for every last cent spent. It is a primarily volunteer run larp that takes a ton of people's donated time to run. I think everyone should try to help create a good game whether it is in the form of donations, npcing, decorating, ect. without automatically asking "What's in it for me?" It is great that we get rewarded for donating and it certainly ups the amount of donations. I think there should definitely be a reward system in place. I just like to see people doing things because they care about the game and I hope they feel at least some reward in being a part of making their gaming experiance fun.

 

[Wraith]

If you look in the Alliance monster manual, you will find that most monsters are statted to deal with magic items. Even an APL 8-10 monster can have a carrier attack, immunities and resists. Usually this accompanied with 2-3 packet attacks. If you have a group of 8 npcs' and give them each 2 or 3 pops to run the encounter it would decimate a group of PCs if they don't have magic items. Magic items keep the players from running out of resources and hiding in the tavern until logistics. The less resources the players have, then the less things you can throw at them from monster camp. Magic items end up being the ultimate equalizer between players and monsters. I would hate to take that away from them.

The issue starts to come when those monsters are statted to handle a particular amount of MIs, and there are characters carrying around whole treasuries. I would be very, very interested in seeing an Alliance-wide breakdown of the number of GS-purchased MI's compared to the number created via the ritual system in, say, the last 18 months. The scaling on monsters is, as I have been told, set up so that the suggested difficulty level of a monster is equivalent to a player of similar level who has received an average cut of treasure policy. Goblin stamp expenditures are, of course, outside of treasure policy, so will throw this estimate off. My anecdotal evidence is that I have seen perhaps one MI created rather than purchased in that time, although less complex items aren't rare in treasure drops.