Wards and doors...

M

meltedwing

Adept
ok... so here's something curious that I think I know the answer to, but I'm going to ask anyway...

If you are inside a ward and the door is open... can you reach out to close it?

If you are not invested in a ward and are not recognized... can you open the door but not go through?

just some curiosities...

Mark
 
Similarly, is the physical door on the inside or outside of the ward? What if it has to swing through the ward to open?

The only way I've really seen that makes any sense with the physical realities of the situation is that the ward "stretches" over the door. If you say that you can't push the door through the ward, and you have an inward-opening door and you say the ward is around the inside of the walls, then you'd be trapped and could never come out (or the opposite situation with an outward-facing door if you say the ward is around the outside of the walls). Thus you pretty much need to say that the door is part of the ward (else somebody will end up trapped and it won't be pretty).
 
We have been discussing this, actually. Currently I am inclined to rule that the door is a part of the ward, to be opened only by someone who is invested or has been recognized by the ward.

This does not, of course, mean that if the door is open then anyone can enter. One still must be invested or recognized to pass the portal.

Furthermore, for ease of playability I would rule that anyone inside or outside of the ward can close the door, regardless of its position, as long as they are invested or recognized.
 
Another add - on question

I have two "add on" Ward questions.

If the door can be opened/closed by anyone invested/recognized, what if a trap is set to go off when the door is opened? Does it affect the person opening the door?

Thinking about this from a trapmaking perspective-

The trap is outside the ward. The person is inside. Technically the trap cannot be triggered by something inside the ward.

Can you lay a trap line through a warded doorway? (I.E. Can you run a string through a doorway or can you drop a sword across the doorway so that it is half-in/half-out, or are items pushed to one side of the ward like a permanent circle of power?)

Barry
 
The assumption is that a person on one side of a ward may not set off a trap on the other side of the ward. I will have to check when I have access to my book, but I do not believe that this is stated anywhere. Furthermore, the logistics of such would be nightmarish.

So, until I get a chance to find a book ruling to the contrary:

1. Items set across a ward at the time of casting will be pushed to one side or the other. If a trap is set across the threshold of a ward portal at the time of casting it will be pushed to whchever side holds the bulk of the trap. Furthermore, if the trap is armed it is considered to have moved for the purposes of determining detonation.

2. A person opening or closing a ward portal who in doing so causes a trap to be set off is considered to have triggered the trap regardless of its location, and the effects of such will be determined normally as per the particular trap in question.

3. Wards are considered to be physical obstructions for the purpose of determining trap radius. I need to reread the rules to determine if this actually has any effect (ie, do physical obstructions hinder a trap's radius). My intuition says that this is the case (otherwise we would have people setting traps off outside buildings to effect those within), but I would like to verify it.
 
Just FYI

I made the assumption regarding setting off a trap that a person is either in or out of a ward. While ruling the a door can be only open/closed by someone invested/recognized in a ward, it took the door and added a little complexity to the ward for traps.

I just want to make sure that *if someone* (cough, cough) put a trap on someone's doorstep that was triggered by the door smacking it, that everyone would be on the same page. (And if it didn't have any effect, then save all those poor overworked trapmakers some gold and not waste the trap)

~Barry
 
Shikar al'Basteua said:
We have been discussing this, actually. Currently I am inclined to rule that the door is a part of the ward, to be opened only by someone who is invested or has been recognized by the ward.

This does not, of course, mean that if the door is open then anyone can enter. One still must be invested or recognized to pass the portal.

Furthermore, for ease of playability I would rule that anyone inside or outside of the ward can close the door, regardless of its position, as long as they are invested or recognized.
Click to expand...

This would indicate that in order to open or close a door the invested/recognized person would not be required to exit or enter the portal? Is this correct? They would be able to affect it from either side?
To me it would make more sense if any outward swinging door (such as the forest cabins) would be considered outside the Ward and in order to open the door from the inside one would have to exit the ward. Inward swinging doors would only be affectable by those inside the Ward requiring someone to enter the portal to open the door.

Marc
 
Masticon said:
This would indicate that in order to open or close a door the invested/recognized person would not be required to exit or enter the portal? Is this correct? They would be able to affect it from either side?
Click to expand...

This is correct.
 
Masticon said:
To me it would make more sense if any outward swinging door (such as the forest cabins) would be considered outside the Ward and in order to open the door from the inside one would have to exit the ward.

Marc
Click to expand...
But this would mean that when the ward was put up the door would rip it self off the hinges having been forced away from the building by the ward. Also it means that people who IG could, would change their doors to in swinging (something we are not allowed to physrep).
 
Kauss said:
But this would mean that when the ward was put up the door would rip it self off the hinges having been forced away from the building by the ward. Also it means that people who IG could, would change their doors to in swinging (something we are not allowed to physrep).
Click to expand...

Not really, a door does not have to be part of a ward. The ward spell says that the doorway/portal is there, but doesn't specify exactly where in the portal the ward is. A few inches within the doorway itself could make all the difference. A door doesn't have to close on the actual ward barrier, it could actually be closing a fraction of an inch in front of it.

As far as not being able to open/close it, it could also be ruled that a movable object (say an unlocked door) is forced open if someone steps through a ward barrier into that 1/4 inch space between the door & ward, likewise it can be ruled that an immovable barrier such as a locked door prevents you from breaking the plane of the barrier, since your mass cannot fit on the other side.

Just some thoughts.
 
Balryn said:
Not really, a door does not have to be part of a ward. The ward spell says that the doorway/portal is there, but doesn't specify exactly where in the portal the ward is. A few inches within the doorway itself could make all the difference. A door doesn't have to close on the actual ward barrier, it could actually be closing a fraction of an inch in front of it.

As far as not being able to open/close it, it could also be ruled that a movable object (say an unlocked door) is forced open if someone steps through a ward barrier into that 1/4 inch space between the door & ward, likewise it can be ruled that an immovable barrier such as a locked door prevents you from breaking the plane of the barrier, since your mass cannot fit on the other side.

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...
Mayhap, but that just sounds like a paperwork nightmare. In general buildings that are warded are presumed to be immune to harm. Be it the roof, the floor, the windows or the door. Taken that way, any part of the warded area is part of the ward. Taking it even farther doesnt that mean that even if the portal is a bit on the inside of the portal, the door itself (being built onto the building) is still warded? As I said, it could open up a mess in general.
 
okok... we're dealing with magic in an imaginary game world.... how does logic apply? :rolleyes:
 
A ward and being immune to harm.

Actually there had been many debates whether or not a ward protects any part of the ward from harm. The ward barrier itself doesn't really need to protect the building, it merely prevents anything from crossing it. It is just rather pointless to use a destroy spell to blow out a window or a door that isn't a ward portal, since regardless of whether there is a door there or not you still can't go through the hole. Unless you are me, then just being destructive and blowing things up with destroys is fun.

Logic only needs to be applied to figure out all the loopholes in the rules and to best preserve the intention of the rules.

Barry


Diera said:
okok... we're dealing with magic in an imaginary game world.... how does logic apply? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
Right... so, we're debating here about whether or not the door is part of the ward so we can whack people when they reach out to close it.

How about, depends on what side of the door you're on? Just seems easiest to me to say the door is part of the ward since the ward MUST have a portal and the door is the portal yada yada. So, if you're outside, you're out, and if you're in, you're in.

I think this is one of those cases where applying too much logic just leaves you chasing your tail.
 
Balryn said:
Actually there had been many debates whether or not a ward protects any part of the ward from harm. The ward barrier itself doesn't really need to protect the building, it merely prevents anything from crossing it. It is just rather pointless to use a destroy spell to blow out a window or a door that isn't a ward portal, since regardless of whether there is a door there or not you still can't go through the hole. Unless you are me, then just being destructive and blowing things up with destroys is fun.

Logic only needs to be applied to figure out all the loopholes in the rules and to best preserve the intention of the rules.

Barry
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On the matter of destroy and Wiz locked doors. Page 69 under the spell destroy. "The spell will not work on a permanent magic item or a magically protected item such as a wizard locked door."
So you actally cant, according to the spell description, blow up wiz locked doors, if they are inside the wiz lock.
Personly I would like to presume that all doors are inside the area of a ward unless, for some reason, the caster intended to leave it outside.

Right... so, we're debating here about whether or not the door is part of the ward so we can whack people when they reach out to close it.
Click to expand...
Thats part of it, but there are other reasons as well. In the past NPCs have talked about ripping a door off its warded hinges for example. Also its common practice for people who want to see whats going on in a cabin to just open the door and claim that they can open the door and watch/listen to everything, they just cant come in. As it stands there are a good number of people who use/abuse the loopholes in the spell effect. Some of them dont know better (classic case of "I saw X do it, so I can do it) and others do it to get around the intent of the spell.
 
I would suggest that if a door is being closed for IG purposes of visibility and audibility, then the door may be opened or closed by an invested member of the Ward only. If the bulk of the character closing or opening the door is "inside" the warded area, then they cannot affect or be affected by, within the rules, anything outside the ward. (Gypsy Curse, or Line of Sight, being the obvious exceptions here)

If, OTOH, the door is being opened or closed for the purposes of heat, fresh air, or safety, then anyone may at anytime open a door.

The state of the door, IG, is as the door is OOG. So if someone opens a door to let in some fresh air, then the door is open.

Anyone I found using these rules in a manner contrary to intent, I would deal with appropriately.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Does a paste?

Does a paste of stiickiness work on a ward?

Meaning can you stick something to a warded wall using a paste?

There is nothing in the book that says it wouldn't work, but I thought there may be a clarification / rules change since then.

Thanks!
 
Balryn said:
Does a paste of stiickiness work on a ward?

Meaning can you stick something to a warded wall using a paste?

There is nothing in the book that says it wouldn't work, but I thought there may be a clarification / rules change since then.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Tenativly I was told that a paste of stickyness does not work on the ward itself, but that it would work on actal objects in the ward. Aka the wall or door of a warded building yes, but the empty air of an open portal, no.
 
I would say it falls into the same as a COP, as far as the rule that it is composed of magical force and has no surface friction. Many people have wanted to throw tarps over their COP to hide what's going on inside it, or climb on top of it, or whatnot, and the rule is always that it was a near-perfectly frictionless surface so nothing would adhere to it in any way. That was one thing I was gonna do a long time ago, Paste trap triggers to the COP so when it went down, the traps would go off.
The main reason I could see this is for people inside a warded building wanting to look out their door without leaving the building, or people are making a B-line for the ward and someone inside wants to open it ahead of time so the person running for their life doesn't have to break stride passing through. Summertime it's not so big a deal cause people brace their doors open and leave em that way alot, but this time of year heat is a consideration. Perhaps, if you are concerned about this, you could bring a very heavy blanket and hang it up in lieu of your door and leave the door swung open at times?

Jeff
 
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