Workshop "base" Production Point confusion

Mobius

Mobius

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The Workshop description seems confusing as it introduces the concept of "base Production Points" which aren't referenced anywhere else in the packet (Alpha pg 6). ¿Do Workshops double the available Production Pool from Create Adventuring Equipment, increase the "free" equipment given at Logistics based on Crafting Skill Level, or something else entirely?

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Base Production Points are the points that a character gains from purchasing ranks of Crafting Skills.
Workshops only double those points.

I'll work on some expanded/clarifying text for that.
 
Why dose it work on only one type and not both?
 
So, in reality it comes down to the math.

If you have 20 ranks of a crafting skill you get 10 PP worth of stuff (in addition to your Crafting Ability Points) without any other expenditure.

If you spend 10 gold, that 10 PP doubles to 20 PP. Purely from a Treasure Policy perspective, the 10 gold that you spend on the workshop is paid for in 20 LP (That may change, but currently, that's where it stands.) This is drastically different than the 1.3/2.0 set up, where your recoup time is much further out and requires a lot more work.

Allowing it to apply to both the base PP as well as the PP generated by CAE puts us in a spot where a 20 rank crafter (assuming they put all of their Ability Points into CAE) makes back the treasure point value of their 10 gold investment over the course of 4 LP.
 
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tieran said:
So, in reality it comes down to the math.

If you have 20 ranks of a crafting skill you get 10 PP worth of stuff (in addition to your Crafting Ability Points) without any other expenditure.

If you spend 10 gold, that 10 PP double to 20 PP. Purely from a Treasure Policy perspective, the 10 gold that you spend on the workshop is paid for in 20 LP (That ay change, but currently, that's where it stands.) This is drastically different than the 1.3/2.0 set up, where your recoup time is much further out and requires a lot more work.

Allowing it to apply to both the base PP as well as the PP generated by CAE puts us in a spot where a 20 rank crafter (assuming they put all of their Ability Points into CAE) makes back the treasure point value of their 10 gold investment over the course of 4 LP.
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I'm not sure I understand how it is a much harder recoup in 2.0. If I have 20 levels in alchemy, the workshop saves me 1 gold per logistics, making up my investment in 10. If I batch, that drops with each batch. If I use a workshop on 2.1, assuming a crafting mat/cp is equal to one silver, it also takes 10 logistics periods to recoup that, except batching does not lower that. Objectively, it is far easier to recoup your investment in 2.0 if you batch at all.

I admit treasure policy is not something I am very familiar with, but from a player perspective workshops are now 80% less effective.
 
Squee said:
I'm not sure I understand how it is a much harder recoup in 2.0. If I have 20 levels in alchemy, the workshop saves me 1 gold per logistics, making up my investment in 10. If I batch, that drops with each batch. If I use a workshop on 2.1, assuming a crafting mat/cp is equal to one silver, it also takes 10 logistics periods to recoup that, except batching does not lower that. Objectively, it is far easier to recoup your investment in 2.0 if you batch at all.

I admit treasure policy is not something I am very familiar with, but from a player perspective workshops are now 80% less effective.
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Just to help clarify -
The workshop in 2.0 does not save you 1 gold, it saves you 2 silver as your 20 ranks generate 100 PP which you pay 80cp for, the workshop doubles your potential capacity before batch making your 20 ranks generate 200pp which you pay 160cp for (a total of 4 silver saved per LP, but only 2 of those are from the workshop). At this rate if you were purely producing and merchanting without batching you would recoup your Workshop in 25LP. While your discount does extend into your batching the fact that the second 200pp will cost you 320cp doesn't actually "save" you 80cp, it costs you an extra 120cp from base.

In 2.1 the 10pp bonus you would get from a workshop (if directly merchanted) equals 5 silver a day or 20LP to pay off, and each additional batch made is made at cost (assuming you spend into CAE). Your second batch of up to 10pp costs you 100cp worth of materials, while your 3rd and 4th batch also cost you 100cp worth of materials each.

So, I believe the core issue is the valuation of the 2.0 workshop and how you are calculating the "savings" from it. The 2.1 workshop is much more efficient, and even more so once you place a Workshop of Convenience Ritual on it (the best 2.1 ritual in the game in my opinion haha)
 
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A.mungo said:
Just to help clarify -
The workshop in 2.0 does not save you 1 gold, it saves you 2 silver as your 20 ranks generate 100 PP which you pay 80cp for, the workshop doubles your potential capacity before batch making your 20 ranks generate 200pp which you pay 160cp for (a total of 4 silver saved per LP, but only 2 of those are from the workshop). At this rate if you were purely producing and merchanting without batching you would recoup your Workshop in 25LP. While your discount does extend into your batching the fact that the second 200pp will cost you 320cp doesn't actually "save" you 80cp, it costs you an extra 120cp from base.

In 2.1 the 10pp bonus you would get from a workshop (if directly merchanted) equals 5 silver a day or 20LP to pay off, and each additional batch made is made at cost (assuming you spend into CAE). Your second batch of up to 10pp costs you 100cp worth of materials, while your 3rd and 4th batch also cost you 100cp worth of materials each.

So, I believe the core issue is the valuation of the 2.0 workshop and how you are calculating the "savings" from it. The 2.1 workshop is much more efficient, and even more so once you place a Workshop of Convenience Ritual on it (the best 2.1 ritual in the game in my opinion haha)
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While you are totally right when not batching, and I get that part, I'm not sure I can agree with the rest. As to the first point of a second batch actually losing you money compared to base; that has nothing to do with how valuable a workshop is or how much money it can save you vs not having one. If I have 20 levels in alchemy and want to produce 200pp, doing so without a workshop costs 240cp. Doing so with a workshop cost you 160cp. That is a savings of 8 silver. Producing another batch of 200pp without a workshop would cost you 480cp. With one it would only cost 320cp. That saves 16 silver.

The fact that prices go up as you batch happens whether you have a workshop or not, so it has no direct impact on the value of a workshop.
 
I wish it Doubled my production pool for my Crafting Ability Crafting, not necessarily so I can spend less crafting materials, but so I don't have to put as many ranks into the Crafting abilities Craft Adventuring Equipment.

2.1 example;
Alchemy, If I wish to be able to make any type of production I must spend 9 crafting Ability points (alchemy) on Craft Adventuring Equipment. (and let me tell ya there is huge demand for those Enslavement antidotes)

Wish;
If an Alchemy Workshop enlarged my Craft Adventuring Equipment Pool I would only have to put 5 alchemy crafting points into the Crafting Ability Craft Adventuring Equipment (alchemy).

I'm just a bit worried about being able to keep up with demand for Adventuring Equipment
 
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