Would You If You Could?

Just to clarify, identification doesn't always require a Celestial circle. It's just usually the easiest way.

Lore Scroll said:
This ritual allows the caster to Identify any magical item or person within the circle at the time of the casting as if using the Identify power of a Greater Celestial Circle of Power, however the Lore Ritual may, at Plot discretion, also reveal things which Celestial Circles are unable to identify such as history, legends or other information. The caster can Identify one item or person per level of ritual magic that he or she possesses. The item(s) or person(s) to be identified must be touched at some point during the course of the ritual.

Ritual Manipulation: Obvious Power said:
The Item has a Flaw added to it where anyone who inspects the Item is able to identify the Aspect of the magic (Earth, Celestial or Necromantic) without the need for a Greater Celestial Circle of Power or a Lore Ritual. The Aspect of the Ritual is also added to the Item Number on the Phys Rep such as C, E or N. If an Obfuscate Ritual exists on an Item or is added to the Item at any later time while this Ritual is still extant this ability will be removed.
Caster must have 15 levels of formal from the appropriate school above the difficulty of the ritual to be cast.


I don't think I'd take this option as my primary or secondary (both scholars, the primary is a ritualist), but my tertiary (a high orc fighter) might.
 
OrcFighterFTW said:
Alright let me try this again.

No, as a player I would not. I like being able to use almost any Magic Item (aside from racial restrictions) and taking that option away would decrease my fun as a player.

To clarify my other post, the spell Magic Blade is a 6th Level Celestial spell. Unless able to identify the weapon's source of this Magic effect (which requires a Celestial circle), the character would need to trust the in-game source of information if that the Magical quality of the weapon is from something else, not this common Celestial spell. A magic delivery appears to be a magic delivery, with no other insight than that at face value, which is why I would think it would need to continue the Celestial role-play perceptions by Barbarians or Biata (especially those who are not well-versed in magic and different rituals). This is why I said even if you told my character it was an Earth-based magic, he would still be cautious of the potential for Celestial magic. From a hard rules standpoint, without an additional effect such as Race Reaver, a Magic Blade is Celestial in nature by default. As Biata and Barbarians are restricted in Celestial Magic and have required roleplay to that end, this should not be any different unless Magic Blade is made into a general spell.

Barbarians and Biata differ in one important way: Biata experience physical pain and other RP-based effects when around C-magic.

For Barbarians it's completely the opposite: it is essentially a belief-system based aversion to Celestial Magic.

You do have a point that you'd need to have a "source" for the magic aura, but once that is established in the rules, you could, in theory, tell whether it is Celestial or not by how Biata react (or not) to it (no circle/ritual magic needed).
 
AllianceCHI said:
Draven said:
OrcFighterFTW said:
Myself and my character share the same views. Apply #2 to all Barbarians and Biata from a game design and balance perspective.

So every time your barbarian gets a magic armor, he doesn't like it, regardless of source? Race Reaver is earth, and gives the "magic" carrier. Poison Shield as a spell is Earth-only. If your character wants to RP unease with it, that's your call, but this is clearly a non-Celestial suggestion that wouldn't exclude Barb/Biata from taking part in, and irrational RP shouldn't affect its viability.

Draven,

I'm not sure that your post leaves much room for discussion or even presents that you are open to a response. Just a reminder, no one can hear your tone of voice over the internet and you are a complete stranger to many folks who might not appreciate the way you present your argument. Never mind that I agree with your point in general, i take issue with your presentation and would ask that you self edit before posting things that might drive people away from these boards. That's not winning an argument. :) On a last note, as an owner, I appreciate the passion you clearly are putting into this game and would welcome your feedback on any post I ever make just remember to try to be constructive.

I went ahead an rewrote what you wrote, hopefully Peter aka Chokonu, can find some traction, make a counter point, or concede the point entirely but in a positive discussion not a semi constant flame war.

I went over my post, and the only thing I would have changed was the word irrational. I meant more along the lines of "phobic." It was a concise post, certainly critical, and constructive (it pointed out there was an Earth-based magic carrier, and an Earth-based spell effect). I hadn't intended any attack, directly or otherwise, but had Peter taken offense for a perceived flaming, I'd have apologized.

I didn't need a demonstration of proper forum etiquette, which was, in my perception, more an attack of condescension, though I'm confident you didn't intend it so.

On topic: Peter's point is also a good one, as far as inherent distrust is concerned.
 
So now that we have some ideas/opinions flowing, let me ask a question that gets at what I am going for.

I do not want EVER to HAVE to have a magic item to touch/effect the game. When magic weapons used to be MUCH more rare (15+ years ago) it used to be cool to see the character with the magic weapon have to fight the liche/whatever. Now with so many it is just really disappointing to have to have a magic whacker to whack things. I didn't add anything/worry about casters because for the most part they can always effect the game (even if that effect is getting a call of "cloak/resist" instead of "no effect"). I also do NOT care about my character being less powerful/versatile because of this limitation.

So here's my question- what would it take for YOU (as a player) to give up all access to magic items? This does NOT include scroll/potions/alchemy.

I think (like Sean Metzler) I am a cheap date. What is your price?
 
You and I think alike Ray, I started a thread with pretty much the same thoughts in mind.
 
As a player, the only reason if give up MIs is if something else gave me either more power, or a comparable amount of power for greater convenience.
 
To give up all MIs, I would re-work the crafting skills to make all spells available in scroll or potion form (yes, including Life potions) so the effects are still accessible and furthermore promote player interaction through a vibrant economy. This would also include re-examining the build cost of production skills. I fully recognize this is a tall order with many moving parts that will probably never happen.
 
As a player, the only reason if give up MIs is if something else gave me either more power, or a comparable amount of power for greater convenience.

I see another reason, and not one that I expect everyone to see-

To just not have to worry about treasure. Any of it. No divvies (that for me can completely break immersion into a character). No "No Effect". No lost item tags. No headaches.
 
RuneBrighteyes said:
I see another reason, and not one that I expect everyone to see-

To just not have to worry about treasure. Any of it. No divvies (that for me can completely break immersion into a character). No "No Effect". No lost item tags. No headaches.
That's not true at all. In fact, treasure becomes more important, since now you need potions/poisons/scrolls to fill the gap that you have in your class's effectiveness that a magic item might otherwise fill. Your treasure just gets focused on expendables, not scrolls/components. You still have to worry about divvies, lost tags, etc.

My "cost" would be completely dependent on the game. I don't feel that there's any benefit to foregoing magic items in a system where they are common and assumed to exist on characters of certain levels. The "price" would be keeping functionally useful while approximating the powerlevel that my peers have so that none of us are under/over powered wrt each other. At that point, I'd might as well have magic items. Strip down the whole MI system, and that power level will shift down, so I'd be happy with that.
 
Personally, I'm totally happy to give up MI's for other cool abilities. I kind of like this whole "Forsaker" concept, though I'm not sure it makes sense for scholars. I mean it could be really cool to make magic items just make scholars/casters cooler and give fighters an alternate path to take.

But, I'm kind of a fan of added diversity via build expenditure and not coin and random treasure drops -- that's not really my game. :)
 
obcidian_bandit said:
RuneBrighteyes said:
I see another reason, and not one that I expect everyone to see-

To just not have to worry about treasure. Any of it. No divvies (that for me can completely break immersion into a character). No "No Effect". No lost item tags. No headaches.
That's not true at all. In fact, treasure becomes more important, since now you need potions/poisons/scrolls to fill the gap that you have in your class's effectiveness that a magic item might otherwise fill. Your treasure just gets focused on expendables, not scrolls/components. You still have to worry about divvies, lost tags, etc.

My "cost" would be completely dependent on the game. I don't feel that there's any benefit to foregoing magic items in a system where they are common and assumed to exist on characters of certain levels. The "price" would be keeping functionally useful while approximating the powerlevel that my peers have so that none of us are under/over powered wrt each other. At that point, I'd might as well have magic items. Strip down the whole MI system, and that power level will shift down, so I'd be happy with that.

I think it is still true for me (individual mileage may vary of course). Potions and scrolls never have really gotten me down- in fact in divvies it might be EVEN easier. I take the consumables and they argue about the divvies of the more attractive items. This perspective also comes from 15+ years of NOT ever worrying about/making sure I have magic items. I used (and largely forgot that I had) what people had given to me. But I never HAD to go after them.
 
Back
Top