[.10] - Relics impressions

It's far, far less useful to newer players, and isn't really as good until level 15-20 now, which kinda isn't "new player" any more.

I agree with MondayMcGee on this one. It highly depends on the chapter you play at. Ones where your average fighters are still swinging 5-10's, throwing 2-5's can be very useful. I'd absolutely say you mileage will vary based upon location.
 
I play in a chapter with pretty high average damage calls. I'd still take a crap wand over the alternative, which is (if you have a weapon skill) becoming the worst possible fighter once you've exhausted all your spells. At least it's still scholar-thematic, and doesn't result in you getting killed by getting into melees you have no business being in.
 
Pyramids are basically never worth it because pyramids effectively turn into columns after you get a 9th level spell. That 9 spell difference never changes and while it represents a 25% improvement at roughly 10th level, it drops to only a 12.5% improvement at 20th level and then continues to fall.

If our system allowed players to build multiple pyramids of the same type (at primary cost), then there would actually be a meaningful option to be a caster that sacrificed power (6th - 9th level spells for example) in order to get quantity. A caster that only made pyramids up to level 5, for example, would enjoy roughly double the spells of an equal level column caster. A caster that made pyramids up to 9th would enjoy the above mentioned 25% improvement in total number of spells.

-MS
 
Re: Low-level impacts.

Lower level characters are one of the reasons I support the idea of a healing wand that scales with level.

1) It would do very little at low levels, but it wouldn’t need to do a lot anyways.

2) When you’re low-level, lower level Healing spells are more effective on you, so your wand would be useful for filling the gap. That really wouldn’t change with level, either.
 
5a) Scholar memorization is likely going to be heavily affected by the fact that Protective spells don't last between events any more, so Scholars will be force to use a column of protectives on themselves, and then one on their friends if they are feeling generous.
5b) Cabins where I play sleep 8. If I were the only scholar (Earth), *to start off an event*, I'd have to use half of my allotted protectives at the start of the event, and in the case of Level 4, that's all 8 for the day, and 3/4 of my Level 2's, and all of my level 5 protectives. At the start of the game. Before anything has happened. Meanwhile, I can have lots of protectives left over if I'm Celestial at most of those levels (I mean, I could drop 4x Slows for more Weapon Shield and have 8 left over at that point). This is a huge incongruity between the two Scholar types, all because of Wands and what they give Celestial indirectly.
5c) So how does plot scale for that? Do they scale for people generally not having Dumb Defenses so that Scholars can 'save' their Protectives for fights? Or do they assume everyone has Protectives to start with, and force Scholars to not only memorize those spells, but also use that many spells at the start of an event, having far less during actual play-time?

Earth
1) Cure Wounds x5, Disarm x10, Endow
2) Weapon Shield x12, Slow x4
3) Weakness x8, Bind x8
4) Poison Shield x8, Cure Disease x4, Cleanse x4
5) Spell Shield x8, Silence x4, Cure Wounds x4
6) Cure Wounds x8, Elemental Shield x4, Sleep x4
7) Cure Wounds x8, Confine x8
8) Cure Wounds x 4, Purify x8, Paralysis x4
9) Death x8, Corrupt x7, Circle of Power x1

Celestial
1) Disarm x16
2) Weapon Shield x12, Slow x4
3) Bind x16
4) Awaken x10, Evocation Bolt x6
5) Spell Shield x16
6) Elemental Shield x6, Sleep x10
7) Confine x14, Charm x2
8) Stun Limb x16
9) Prison x15, Circle of Power x1

You seem to be ignoring potions in your analysis. Based on the spell columns you presented, you are playing at least a 40th level caster (and that is assuming no formal levels). Just from your character being at game, 24 gold worth of treasure is added to the treasure that goes out during the weekend. The expectation is that you will get an average of 24 gold a weekend. Even if you only get half of that, you could still afford to purchase a full set of protective potions for yourself for both days. And since you appear to have a team of 8, the expectation is your team will get 8 times as much treasure over the weekend (though, admittedly, you might be the high level person on your team, so the total treasure expectation may not be 8 x 24 gold in value).

The point I am trying to make is that you don't need to sink all of your spells into protecting your allies. Odds are that you are swimming in unspent treasure. Make a friend with an in-game potion maker, or take advantage of NPC merchants, and your team should be able to fully ramp up at the start of the weekend (and after Saturday logistics) without affecting your spell selection.

-MS
 
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I'm usually lucky to earn 1-2 gold in a weekend (which I'm totally okay with, don't misunderstand, just stating for informative purposes), so I don't really factor in consumables. I mean, I carry a few on me and such, but generally speaking I rely on spells(others)/expanded enchant for my healing (I currently play a Fighter).

That's a really weird way to spell "columns," buddy.

:|
 
But most of this was all based on East Coast perceptions, because they are so Fighter-heavy out there and there are so few C-scholars (had have/had lots of them out West and didn't really see the same issues; our Fighters have and had far fewer magic items, making them less effective and class balance out here is, I think, far more distributed relative to other regions but especially East Coast).


From our last game’s preregistration list, with no changes based on who ended up showing or didn’t, our class split was roughly (to the best of my recollection) as follows:

13 Fighter
6 Earth Templar
5 Earth Scholar
3 Celestial Scholar
2 Earth Adept
2 Rogue
 
"our last game[...]"

Alliance San Francisco, for the record.

(Speaking of black holes of healing, what up buddy ._. )
 
From our last game’s preregistration list, with no changes based on who ended up showing or didn’t, our class split was roughly (to the best of my recollection) as follows:

13 Fighter
6 Earth Templar
5 Earth Scholar
3 Celestial Scholar
2 Earth Adept
2 Rogue

Wow, barely any Celestial...and almost no rogues :(

SOMEONE LOVE THE ROGUES.
 
I gather healing wand isn't a popular idea, but I really don't understand why...
In the ownership forums we have discussed it and really it comes down to two things:
  1. It's boring thematically, Earth already has a lot of healing via spells.
  2. A lot of the ownership doesn't want an wand rip-off for Earth that just heals or just does damage.
Note that I am in no way saying this is in-line with my personal thoughts. However, if you want a peek into what's behind the curtain, this is why Relics do not do damage or healing in their current form.
 
Wow, barely any Celestial...and almost no rogues :(

One of the most important things people need to realize in doing this rollout is that level range and class breakdowns, as well as campaign culture, are drastically different across all chapters. Every game is meaningfully different than every other, in significant ways.

Things that work (or don’t work) for one person, or one team, or even one entire chapter, or heck, even one region, don’t necessarily work for every other. Or even any other. I see a lot of cultural differences that drive people to fervently support or oppose certain aspects of the v2 transition. Just because XYZ is broken, or works, here or there, doesn’t mean that’s the case everywhere.

So remember that while you may be experiencing something in particular doesn’t necessarily mean everyone else is. They’re not necessarily telling you that you’re wrong, so much as they’re telling you that those things don’t align with their experiences, and that’s okay. We all need to hear these various individual experiences so we can collectively build a better picture of what the game nationally looks like as a whole. It’s in our best interest to regard everyone’s feedback who is willing to share it, because everyone can help recruit, can improve the game experiences of others, and ultimately pays the same registration fee.
 
In the ownership forums we have discussed it and really it comes down to two things:
  1. It's boring thematically, Earth already has a lot of healing via spells.
  2. A lot of the ownership doesn't want an wand rip-off for Earth that just heals or just does damage.

Boring doesn't mean bad. I am sure 99% of earth casters would be okay with this boring fix....

As to it being a rip off of wands, if it works why not? Why reinvent the wheel?
 
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Boring doesn't mean bad. I am sure 99% of earth casters would be okay with this boring fix....

As to it being a rip off of wands, if it works why not? Why reinvent the wheel?
You're telling me, man. I wanted to rip off High Magic for Martial Mastery. :D
 
In the ownership forums we have discussed it and really it comes down to two things:
  1. It's boring thematically, Earth already has a lot of healing via spells.
  2. A lot of the ownership doesn't want an wand rip-off for Earth that just heals or just does damage.
Note that I am in no way saying this is in-line with my personal thoughts. However, if you want a peek into what's behind the curtain, this is why Relics do not do damage or healing in their current form.

Thanks for the info.

Personally, I'd call it thematically and mechanically consistent, not boring or a rip-off. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Thanks for the info.

Personally, I'd call it thematically and mechanically consistent, not boring or a rip-off. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Indeed.
 
In the ownership forums we have discussed it and really it comes down to two things:
  1. It's boring thematically, Earth already has a lot of healing via spells.
  2. A lot of the ownership doesn't want an wand rip-off for Earth that just heals or just does damage.
Note that I am in no way saying this is in-line with my personal thoughts. However, if you want a peek into what's behind the curtain, this is why Relics do not do damage or healing in their current form.

BACKSTABS ARE LITERALLY A WEAPON PROFICIENCY RIP OFF. PARRIES ARE LITERALLY A DODGE RIP OFF. THIS LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE AND IS INCONSISTENT WITH OUR SYSTEM.

Edit: Any perceived frustration is not directed at Rick. I like Rick. I understand Rick.

I'm not saying where it's directed at, because that should be frickin' obvious.
 
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