Good morning playtesters!
I have a couple of questions for folks who are critical of the damage scaling in the 2.0 playtest packet vs. the current 1.3 damage scaling. I'd like to run through some examples and get your honest feedback either way on the possible results.
For the purpose of this discussion, we're talking solely about constant Weapon Proficiency and Backstab damage. Wands are separate issue with separate scaling/discussion challenges (though they are somewhat related).
In 1.3, if I send out a "standard" monster, I'm faced with several challenges in how to scale its Body Point total, including:
- Fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the standard monsters are Undead, with a corresponding "double damage from Earth" vulnerability.
- At least 1/2 of the non-Undead monsters available have a "double damage from..." vulnerability, though (other than pure Foundation elementals) these are not nearly so engaged by the PCs.
- In high level engagements, I have to stat the encounter assuming the PCs have the "double damage" keys available (through activatable per-day Magic Items, spells, or - more often - simple always-on Auras).
A 45th level Fighter will often have at least 20 Weapon Proficiencies in 1.3. With a Longsword, this lets them swing 22s base. With a +3 Damage Aura, that becomes 25s. With an appropriate Slayer aura instead, that becomes 30s. With an appropriate "double damage" Aura, that becomes 50s or 60s.
With a 2H weapon (including bows), they swing 33s. With a +3 Damage Aura, that becomes 36s. With an appropriate Slayer aura instead, that becomes 41s. With an appropriate "double damage" Aura, that becomes 70s or 80s.
This is without including, say, a quiver of Vorpal Arrows, and this is stopping at 20 Profs (there are numerous Fighters with more out there at high level). It's entirely possible (and happens more often than not) for a 50th level Fighter to effectively swing or throw 100+ damage per swing when targeting a Vulnerability, or 50+ when not.
Rogues generally present the same scaling issues, though at somewhat lower opportunity and/or damage (in my experience they spread Build expenditures out a bit more than Fighters on average).
Let's say I have a Fighter, a Rogue, an E Scholar, and a C Scholar on the field against several Undead. If I'm statting the encounter at high level, I have to assume that I'm facing Fighters who will effectively swing 50+ with every single swing - more than the C scholar can throw with their highest level damage spell, and it doesn't cost the Fighter any per-day abilities for each of those swings - they never run out. Even if the Earth scholar is chucking Cure Morts like there's no tomorrow, they'll still run out much faster than the Fighter will.
This leads to "standard" Undead on the field (not "big bad guy" types) with 300+ Body Points, because otherwise with these damage numbers the Fighters (and somewhat the Rogues) just step up and hit them a few times without breaking a sweat - burst damage (from any source) need not apply. This also leads to significantly more takeouts on the field, as they're basically required from anyone *not* swinging 30s or higher to take out a "standard" crunchy target.
I'm fairly sure that some of the commenters in other threads don't see an issue with any of the above. That's one of the choices in the poll you can select! Alternatively, if you feel that some elements of the above are an issue, but others aren't, you can select one or more of the other options.
The current 2.0 packet hits multiple of these areas (+Damage rituals, Aura rituals, scaling Proficiency/Backstab costs) at once.
Thank you for your input, it's helpful to see the views of this community!
-Bryan Gregory
ARC
I have a couple of questions for folks who are critical of the damage scaling in the 2.0 playtest packet vs. the current 1.3 damage scaling. I'd like to run through some examples and get your honest feedback either way on the possible results.
For the purpose of this discussion, we're talking solely about constant Weapon Proficiency and Backstab damage. Wands are separate issue with separate scaling/discussion challenges (though they are somewhat related).
In 1.3, if I send out a "standard" monster, I'm faced with several challenges in how to scale its Body Point total, including:
- Fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the standard monsters are Undead, with a corresponding "double damage from Earth" vulnerability.
- At least 1/2 of the non-Undead monsters available have a "double damage from..." vulnerability, though (other than pure Foundation elementals) these are not nearly so engaged by the PCs.
- In high level engagements, I have to stat the encounter assuming the PCs have the "double damage" keys available (through activatable per-day Magic Items, spells, or - more often - simple always-on Auras).
A 45th level Fighter will often have at least 20 Weapon Proficiencies in 1.3. With a Longsword, this lets them swing 22s base. With a +3 Damage Aura, that becomes 25s. With an appropriate Slayer aura instead, that becomes 30s. With an appropriate "double damage" Aura, that becomes 50s or 60s.
With a 2H weapon (including bows), they swing 33s. With a +3 Damage Aura, that becomes 36s. With an appropriate Slayer aura instead, that becomes 41s. With an appropriate "double damage" Aura, that becomes 70s or 80s.
This is without including, say, a quiver of Vorpal Arrows, and this is stopping at 20 Profs (there are numerous Fighters with more out there at high level). It's entirely possible (and happens more often than not) for a 50th level Fighter to effectively swing or throw 100+ damage per swing when targeting a Vulnerability, or 50+ when not.
Rogues generally present the same scaling issues, though at somewhat lower opportunity and/or damage (in my experience they spread Build expenditures out a bit more than Fighters on average).
Let's say I have a Fighter, a Rogue, an E Scholar, and a C Scholar on the field against several Undead. If I'm statting the encounter at high level, I have to assume that I'm facing Fighters who will effectively swing 50+ with every single swing - more than the C scholar can throw with their highest level damage spell, and it doesn't cost the Fighter any per-day abilities for each of those swings - they never run out. Even if the Earth scholar is chucking Cure Morts like there's no tomorrow, they'll still run out much faster than the Fighter will.
This leads to "standard" Undead on the field (not "big bad guy" types) with 300+ Body Points, because otherwise with these damage numbers the Fighters (and somewhat the Rogues) just step up and hit them a few times without breaking a sweat - burst damage (from any source) need not apply. This also leads to significantly more takeouts on the field, as they're basically required from anyone *not* swinging 30s or higher to take out a "standard" crunchy target.
I'm fairly sure that some of the commenters in other threads don't see an issue with any of the above. That's one of the choices in the poll you can select! Alternatively, if you feel that some elements of the above are an issue, but others aren't, you can select one or more of the other options.
The current 2.0 packet hits multiple of these areas (+Damage rituals, Aura rituals, scaling Proficiency/Backstab costs) at once.
Thank you for your input, it's helpful to see the views of this community!
-Bryan Gregory
ARC