A theoretical challenge.

[Wraith]

It is a given that the proliferation of magic items has changed the way the game is scaled. Before we start arguing this fact, kindly count the number of smart defenses and active abilities you have in your character's possession that aren't build-bought and reconsider. The change in scaling means that a stock of magical items is essential to being able to survive content scaled to your theoretical APL.

Now then, for the theoretical part. Assume you have some players who are coming back to the game after a while away. They have been gone long enough that all of their original gear has been lost or has expired, so they are without items. They do, however, have characters around level twelve.

To make this more interesting, we will add two more constraints :

1. The players have a limited amount of available time and money, so they can only make a half dozen games a year.

2. Due to only getting to game so often, they wish to PC when traveling to game.


Now, we have our base assumptions. Given these assumptions, how would you go about bringing these characters up to a state that will allow them to interact with plot scaled for their APL without dying to effects they do not have the assumed defenses for?

 

[Lurin]

Hrm I can't participate too well on this one, as the game I run is APL 9ish, as of our last event, and the other I think is APL...12-13ish?

That being said my current characters have done fairly well without any/many smart protectives, My turtle is level 20(ish) with 7 Levels of build in resists and is a templar with 4 profs, and has felt very reasonable in Seattle and Chicago, and was rolled under the bus at the First national game and the Southern Michigan game recently. (although cloaks wouldn't help against 2x 50 slay baddies stacked that deeply)

Last year I hit I think 7 or 8 separate chapters, mostly with my new barrister/healer, and had no smart defenses, or armor the entire year (hooray high magic cloaks however) I managed to do very well in almost every chapter I went to, although SoMI was running an anti-magic lizard plot that kicked his butt. That included a visit to Caldaria with some very ugly nasties around, Although I did get rolled by some bandits, that was my fault for walking down what I knew was an active path alone ^.^

While stacked resists are often the red headed step-child that takes a lot of abuse, in my experience it's not very common to see a large number of defensives called, when it does happened it can be a little cheezy back and forth for awhile before the real fight happens ^.^

I don't know I've got two 20+ level characters, one with a lot of wealth, and one with basically nothing beyond the basics, I enjoy playing both and they both fit in very well (one watches over people, one is useful but needs watched over)

I've yet to figure out how my new artisan/useless rabbit will end up, other then he's fun to play so far.

 

[Wraith]

Out of curiosity, what do you consider 'the basics'? Production items?

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Hold on:

1. The players live on the West Coast, so they can only make a half dozen games a year.

There, fixed it. (I really want to go in the "The above is why magic items should have a set number of games rather than an expiration date" direction, but that's not really what this is about, however that solution would fix this 'problem.')

Anyways:

Given these assumptions, how would you go about bringing these characters up to a state that will allow them to interact with plot scaled for their APL without dying to effects they do not have the assumed defenses for?

You don't. At 12th level, I don't assume almost any defenses. Even if this were changed so that the person in question was 25th level, and I did assume they had some stuff, the players should be able to realize the situation that they're in and beg/borrow/steal items to get to that point, or not dive in 100% into situations that they know they probably can't handle.

I don't see how this is any different from a regular player who has lost their stuff to other reasons (like having it stolen at the last event, or ressing on another plane or something).

 

[tolgar undershaft]

I don't think plot should be responcable for someone on what they go on. I know i have had charcters who have gone on insane missions at a low level. I ended up just applying vorpals to arrows and handing them to the archers. and picking up the gear fo the dead! everyone can find a role in a battle if played smart. Someone who has nothing might go on a few low level mods first to build up a little coin to buy some potions and such. Eventually in no time they will be rolling with whatever APL you send at them.

 

[RiddickDale]

I hardly even knew what a cloak or bane WAS at level 12.

I would say that a character could interact with an apl 12 plotline with 0 magic items. They would probably benefit from a magic weapon or some rendered armor, but my team did fine at that level without much of anything.

Stephen

 

[Lurin]

Hold on:

1. The players live on the West Coast, so they can only make a half dozen games a year.

There, fixed it. (I really want to go in the "The above is why magic items should have a set number of games rather than an expiration date" direction, but that's not really what this is about, however that solution would fix this 'problem.')

Anyways:

Given these assumptions, how would you go about bringing these characters up to a state that will allow them to interact with plot scaled for their APL without dying to effects they do not have the assumed defenses for?

You don't. At 12th level, I don't assume almost any defenses. Even if this were changed so that the person in question was 25th level, and I did assume they had some stuff, the players should be able to realize the situation that they're in and beg/borrow/steal items to get to that point, or not dive in 100% into situations that they know they probably can't handle.

I don't see how this is any different from a regular player who has lost their stuff to other reasons (like having it stolen at the last event, or ressing on another plane or something).

To be fair mister Bandit Southern Minnesota players are 7 hours from Chicago, and 12 from TC/SoMI, that's fairly comparable to Most West Coasters (Chicago folks often make the drive up to SoMN as well, so while they've got some closer options, they also feel your pain.)

On the happy side We also have a wonderfully active/enthusiastic crowd so in addition to the Average local player (who, at least in SoMN makes 4-7 of our 7 events a year) our mean attendance yearly for folks is closer to 8-10 games depending as we like to convoy down to Chi-town (and vice-versus)

At any rate, for basic level at level 12, I generally expect to see Fully geared with your favorite production items (includes 2-3 gold worth of scrolls/potions/alchemy for emergencies) and access to at least replacements for weapons/armor etc. Generally by level 12 I'd expect to see 1-2 magic items, more if they play in a team, or if they don't blanket monthly. To be fair our average heavier donation giver will have in addition to the above (locally, only what I've seen) an Arcane armor, or an additional small item or weapon (mostly the occasional life item, rendered armor, or +0 Carrier weapon).

 

[Gilwing]

I hardly even knew what a cloak or bane WAS at level 12.

Yea, you were still thinking how to obtain that dodge with build, as your fighter

I would say that a character could interact with an apl 12 plotline with 0 magic items. They would probably benefit from a magic weapon or some rendered armor, but my team did fine at that level without much of anything.

Stephen

In all seriousness, you are correct. You also said a key word here...TEAM. Your team did fine. Its rough for that level 12 "guy" to hold there own. So I would recommend getting out there and find other 12's to hook up with, sticking together. Strength in numbers. I remember the first day I seen these guys, The Black Unicorns. Had to be about 8-10 deep. Running around the battle field kicking but and taking names. Searching every thing and the thought in my mind is who the F are these new guys and what level are they. I think they were all under 5th except for one guy that played a few more events then them, so maybe 7th or so.

Nero was set to "play well with others". Made to get your friends together and bring in a team. Just like a party in D&D. They have there classes and there roles.

Bottom line, you always need some one to watch your back; can't heal your self when your on the floor bleeding out.

 

[Hammerfist]

I have a low level character that I play every two years or so.... he is now around level 8 or 9. I have played him in games with APLs ranging from 4-19 gone on mods where I was 20 levels lower than the next lowest and have never felt removed from a plot line, unable to interact or to be drain on resources. He carries no magic items as they are really worthless as the would just expire. The key is to find people to run with that will watch your back and then blend your skills with theirs.

This all goes to David's point that this game is not desinged to be a solo grind. Go out of your way to meet new people and offer your assistance.

 

[RiddickDale]

Is there a specific hypothesis we are testing here?

 

[Wraith]

Mostly, I am just fishing to see how the folks who commonly post here think the mid to low level game should be approached, to see how it compares to my own experience.

Generally seems to be the consensus here that the answer is to bring friends, which sucks for travelling players, but is to be expected.

 

[Hammerfist]

I disagree with that conclusion. I believe the consesus is to either bring friends and/or make friends.

 

[RiddickDale]

I disagree with that conclusion. I believe the consesus is to either bring friends and/or make friends.

+1. If you travel the you HAVE to meld in with the locals. You can't be dark mysterious stand off in the corner guy in another chapter and expect to do well. You have to use some charisma and get in there with everyone.

 

[Inaryn]

I disagree with that conclusion. I believe the consesus is to either bring friends and/or make friends.

+1. If you travel the you HAVE to meld in with the locals. You can't be dark mysterious stand off in the corner guy in another chapter and expect to do well. You have to use some charisma and get in there with everyone.

Also, be communicative with the plot team of the chapter you're going to attend. Unless there's some big tournament going on or your character has been specifically called in by a friend, communicating with the plot team ahead of time could net you a reason to be there, aka a hook.

Communication is a really big part of our game.

 

[Wraith]

I disagree with that conclusion. I believe the consesus is to either bring friends and/or make friends.

+1. If you travel the you HAVE to meld in with the locals. You can't be dark mysterious stand off in the corner guy in another chapter and expect to do well. You have to use some charisma and get in there with everyone.

Of course. Sorry, I took that as assumed, so didn't say it outright. Although I will note that the general suggestion of playing in a team isn't really that workable as a purely travelling player. Hard to be really effective when there are several hundred miles between parts of the team, and you meet every other game on a good year.

 

[RiddickDale]

If you a purely travelling player you must go to the same places mroe than once. Establishing relationships in those chapters is just as beneficial as being on a team.

The East Coast is pretty dense. But, I don't travel as much as I used to. The relationships that I built when I spent time in the other chapters in the northeast are essential. I find places to stay. People to take me on modules. Shoot... I was even hired to participate in a tournament based entirely on relationships I have built.