An attempt at betterment
- Thread starter Maxondaerth
- Start date
markusdark
Virtuoso
Maxondaerth said:
I don't see any difference with the 'adventurer slang venacular' of 'throw me a cure crit' and 'what where they swinging for' when trying to figure out what carriers/damage they'll be facing later. There are all sorts of venaculars that irk me but are 100% IG - especially because of the world. Rez, PD'd, full boat, etc.
As for letting a healer look at the wounds to decide themselves, I think that is just fine and dandy during downtime but in the middle of the battle, you call out what you need and get it. Unfortunately, the speed of Alliance combat doesn't give anyone much time to RP.
Dreamingfurther said:
David,
I think you might have missed my point -- you might as well go up to a healer and say, "Gadzooks, I have been greviously injured. I am in dire need of a powerful healing potion for 40 Body Points worth of healing."
The problem is, we don't deal with Body Point In Game -- that is an OOG concept. If we are going to make the IG atmosphere better, we need to keep these kinds of things in mind.
Hoyce
Apprentice
mikestrauss said:Wraith said:Only issue with using spells as reference is folks that simply don't know IG (or OOG) what that equates to.
Also, while the IG lack of knowledge may be a problem, the OOG lack of knowledge should never happen. Spell damage is required knowledge for all players. In fact, spell effects is required knowledge for all players.
-MS
This is true. You should never come to a game unless you have memorized the rule book. This includes new players. If you're thinking of playing Alliance make sure to buy a rule book and memorize it before ever coming to a game. If you don't, you should never have come.
Hoyce
Apprentice
I agree with the general theme of this thread as well.
I try to use spell verbage to determine how many points does, since my primary is a mage. When I'm playing my dwarf, I use armor ("Me armor is about 20 stones an' that beastie ripped it apart in two hits!). I didn't start being able to figure out what spells will heal me until I learned healing arts and started learning Earth Magic as my primary.
Likewise I try to describe the effects of a strike rather than the carrier. "That monsters claws are poisoned! It'll make you sick!" rather than "that thing swings nausea."
Thus "a monster swinging 30 death" becomes "Careful! That creature can rend any suit of armor and if it gets through it will strike you dead!"
It takes a little extra brain power, and I think even the best of us have forgotten to use it in the thick of combat, but making the effort is what it's all about IMHO.
Hoyce
I try to use spell verbage to determine how many points does, since my primary is a mage. When I'm playing my dwarf, I use armor ("Me armor is about 20 stones an' that beastie ripped it apart in two hits!). I didn't start being able to figure out what spells will heal me until I learned healing arts and started learning Earth Magic as my primary.
Likewise I try to describe the effects of a strike rather than the carrier. "That monsters claws are poisoned! It'll make you sick!" rather than "that thing swings nausea."
Thus "a monster swinging 30 death" becomes "Careful! That creature can rend any suit of armor and if it gets through it will strike you dead!"
It takes a little extra brain power, and I think even the best of us have forgotten to use it in the thick of combat, but making the effort is what it's all about IMHO.
Hoyce
markusdark
Virtuoso
Hoyce said:mikestrauss said:Wraith said:Only issue with using spells as reference is folks that simply don't know IG (or OOG) what that equates to.
Also, while the IG lack of knowledge may be a problem, the OOG lack of knowledge should never happen. Spell damage is required knowledge for all players. In fact, spell effects is required knowledge for all players.
-MS
This is true. You should never come to a game unless you have memorized the rule book. This includes new players. If you're thinking of playing Alliance make sure to buy a rule book and memorize it before ever coming to a game. If you don't, you should never have come.
I don't agree with this. In fact, I know many owners who don't have the rulebook memorized. I believe that you should have the basic understanding of the workings of the game but to tell people to not go to a game if they don't have every rule memorizes is a poor practice.
It read as sarcastic to me.
Dreamingfurther
Exemplar
I saw that note as sarcastic as well...
I assume you both are objecting to characters knowing they are down 15 points? Or an ice bolt's worth if you prefer? I ask because I don't see what the problem is. In fact, if I can describe how hard the baddies were hitting (Their blows were landing about as hard as Tricky's over there) and I know I got hit 3 times doesn't it stand to reason that I know IG exactly how much healing I need?
Everyone seems to support knowing how hard things hit so why would it be metagaming to use that info IG to figure out how much healing you need?
And any character familiar with earth magic / healing (most of em who have been in combat I guess) should know it's a cure serious and a cure wounds worth.
I know at one event, my character knew he had not been first aided because after getting a cure serious he was still a bit hurt. If he had really been first aided, the cure serious would have gotten him back to normal. I figured it was just something my character would have observed in the course of getting beaten down and healed over time.
Everyone seems to support knowing how hard things hit so why would it be metagaming to use that info IG to figure out how much healing you need?
And any character familiar with earth magic / healing (most of em who have been in combat I guess) should know it's a cure serious and a cure wounds worth.
I know at one event, my character knew he had not been first aided because after getting a cure serious he was still a bit hurt. If he had really been first aided, the cure serious would have gotten him back to normal. I figured it was just something my character would have observed in the course of getting beaten down and healed over time.
Ondreij said:
jpariury
Paragon
No, because there is a skill for that. What's the point of "healing arts, how many body are you down" if you can just ask "Hey, exactly what spells do I need to use to heal you to full right now?"? There's an argument to be made that while you know how hurt you are, you don't know how much healing you need.James Trotta said:
Example: One of my favorite encounters had Cymryc and I playing goblins, me as the healer. He'd get hit and run up to me going "I need a cure mort!" "Healing arts, how many body are you down?" "6". "Idiot, why did you say you need a cure mort!" "If I get hit again, I's gonna die, boss! Cure mort me!"
If I get hit with a lightning bolt should my character know that he needs a cure serious? It seems to me that he does know even though "there is a skill for that" in healing arts. Same thing if he gets hit for 10 from a weapon:
A: How hard was that thing swinging?
B: Getting hit by that claw was as bad as getting hit by a lightning bolt. Good thing he only got one good hit on me.
A: You need healing?
B: Yeah but I don't know which potion to drink.
A: You're at least as dumb as a goblin!
Everyone I know who plays this game will drink the healing potion they need even if they haven't been told what they need by someone with healing arts. I never thought of that as cheese and it never made healing arts a useless skill.
A: How hard was that thing swinging?
B: Getting hit by that claw was as bad as getting hit by a lightning bolt. Good thing he only got one good hit on me.
A: You need healing?
B: Yeah but I don't know which potion to drink.
A: You're at least as dumb as a goblin!
Everyone I know who plays this game will drink the healing potion they need even if they haven't been told what they need by someone with healing arts. I never thought of that as cheese and it never made healing arts a useless skill.
jpariury said:
Gilwing said:
unless you're in a Golem or don't have HA. in which case, hose-city. speaking of which, ¿how does a Golem ever know her body count? it's a non-standard metabolism and riding a Golem body doesn't impart any knowledge of "alien metabolism". ¿wouldn't that mean no Golem-rider can ever know how much healing she needs?
jpariury
Paragon
To the best of my knowledge, golems are "no metab", not "alien metab". Not that that helps the quandary...
Honestly? Probably not. It seems more in keeping with the game environment and the spirit of the healing arts rules if you just describe or consider how wounded you are proportionally. ("He beat me half to death!"... "Enh, 'tis but a scratch."... etc.)James Trotta said:
"Excuse me good healer, I was critically wounded in the previous bandit raid, is there any chance I could get some healing?"
"Oh certainly, I call upon the earth to cure critical wounds"
versus:
"Excuse me good healer, I'm injured"
"Healing arts, how many body points are you down?"
"Twenty"
"I call upon the earth to cure critical wounds"
While the second is "more correct", the first presents a much more immersive game environment. I cringe every time I hear the words "Body points" "craftsman other" or "What do I see?".
"Oh certainly, I call upon the earth to cure critical wounds"
versus:
"Excuse me good healer, I'm injured"
"Healing arts, how many body points are you down?"
"Twenty"
"I call upon the earth to cure critical wounds"
While the second is "more correct", the first presents a much more immersive game environment. I cringe every time I hear the words "Body points" "craftsman other" or "What do I see?".
evi1r0n
Exemplar
Hoyce said:mikestrauss said:Wraith said:Only issue with using spells as reference is folks that simply don't know IG (or OOG) what that equates to.
Also, while the IG lack of knowledge may be a problem, the OOG lack of knowledge should never happen. Spell damage is required knowledge for all players. In fact, spell effects is required knowledge for all players.
-MS
This is true. You should never come to a game unless you have memorized the rule book. This includes new players. If you're thinking of playing Alliance make sure to buy a rule book and memorize it before ever coming to a game. If you don't, you should never have come.
Well it was a good run. I really enjoyed playing Alliance but I guess I shouldn't come back. It's not like the game has hundreds of spell effects, alchemy and carriers to memorize. Wait. I don't have the memory capacity to memorize a 162pg book. I have really tried but I just can't. 4 games and I still can't repeat each spell from memory verbatim. Oh well, I will just tell all the new people I have and will be bringing to join a more forgiving game. (And since sarcasm doesn't translate I will add laughing smiley :lol: )
Hoyce said:
R O T F L M F A O
*I* know you are being as fecetious as a dragon, here ... 'cause I know you. I just hope that others (especially new people) haven't take you seriously.
edited in>>>--------OOPS - I see I posted too soon .... before reading the rest of the thread. Well, well, well.------------
Hoyce
Apprentice
Hoyce said:mikestrauss said:Wraith said:Only issue with using spells as reference is folks that simply don't know IG (or OOG) what that equates to.
Also, while the IG lack of knowledge may be a problem, the OOG lack of knowledge should never happen. Spell damage is required knowledge for all players. In fact, spell effects is required knowledge for all players.
-MS
This is true. You should never come to a game unless you have memorized the rule book. This includes new players. If you're thinking of playing Alliance make sure to buy a rule book and memorize it before ever coming to a game. If you don't, you should never have come.
For the record, yes. I was being sarcastic (stupid interwebs and its inability to convey sarcasm!!)
It was a bit of a shot at the thought that you should always know each and every rule nuance off the top of your head. I feel that is an unreasonable standard. I've been playing for like 12 years now, and I STILL learn new aspects of the rules at least once a season.
"Healer Teimorin, I was moments ago engaged in combat with vampire most foul, and he dealt me two grievous wounds to my leg and ribs and two more cuts here on my hip. As soon as his claws touched my skin I felt as though my strength was bleeding away, and with his magic he has laid a curse upon me such that even the lightest of blows sends me reeling!"
vs.
"Hey Tim, just went toe-to-toe with a vamp, probably newly mature. A cure crit and change should do it, but you're the expert. He was channeling weakness, and he got me with a spellstrike destruction, too."
On the one hand, the first speaker does sound more in period. On the other hand, he also sounds like he has never actually taken damage or seen spells cast before. I copmletely agree that characters shouldn't be directly referencing obviously OOG stats like body points, but the healing done by the various cure spells is internally consistant; anyone getting healed regularly would likely get fairly good at identifying the rough seriousness of their injuries. Our game has a very rigorously defined set of spells that characters have access to; again, the effects of these spells are internally consistant. Frankly, I'm more uncomfortable with the idea that most characters aren't capable of recognizing that everytime someone points at them and shouts something about a curse of destruction they suffer more serious injuries than they would otherwise and then be able to say that if they are feeling far more battered than makes sense given what's hitting them, that they are probably under the effects of a destruction spell.
Experience breeds familiarty, and a group familiarty will lead to specialized terminology and the expectation of common knowledge. Very few people who play WoW or other MMORPGs wouldn't know what LF2M need tank meant, although the abbreviation and specialized use of 'tank' means most people without that shared background would not. IT workers don't take the time to explain to each other what RAM stands for; they all know already. Professional musicians are expected to know what a G clef is, auto mechanics know the names of all sorts of things that I have never heard of, and all of them require any other professionals they work with to meet a minimum knowledge requirement and to get themselves up to speed as soon as possible. Adventurers are professionals. It is totally reasonable they would behave as such.
vs.
"Hey Tim, just went toe-to-toe with a vamp, probably newly mature. A cure crit and change should do it, but you're the expert. He was channeling weakness, and he got me with a spellstrike destruction, too."
On the one hand, the first speaker does sound more in period. On the other hand, he also sounds like he has never actually taken damage or seen spells cast before. I copmletely agree that characters shouldn't be directly referencing obviously OOG stats like body points, but the healing done by the various cure spells is internally consistant; anyone getting healed regularly would likely get fairly good at identifying the rough seriousness of their injuries. Our game has a very rigorously defined set of spells that characters have access to; again, the effects of these spells are internally consistant. Frankly, I'm more uncomfortable with the idea that most characters aren't capable of recognizing that everytime someone points at them and shouts something about a curse of destruction they suffer more serious injuries than they would otherwise and then be able to say that if they are feeling far more battered than makes sense given what's hitting them, that they are probably under the effects of a destruction spell.
Experience breeds familiarty, and a group familiarty will lead to specialized terminology and the expectation of common knowledge. Very few people who play WoW or other MMORPGs wouldn't know what LF2M need tank meant, although the abbreviation and specialized use of 'tank' means most people without that shared background would not. IT workers don't take the time to explain to each other what RAM stands for; they all know already. Professional musicians are expected to know what a G clef is, auto mechanics know the names of all sorts of things that I have never heard of, and all of them require any other professionals they work with to meet a minimum knowledge requirement and to get themselves up to speed as soon as possible. Adventurers are professionals. It is totally reasonable they would behave as such.