Another Cap proposal

Outside of Dodge's, High Magic abilities, and Magic Items ( not counting the occasional 1 resist magic racial ) most characters at any level are going to be a 2 spell kill level is not the problem here. There are TONs of cloaks,banes,spell shields,spell parry's,etc it's very rare a player gets taken down this way anymore. I don't care your level, get rid of these seemingly unlimited charges of things listed above and you'll get taken down.

I think the confusion comes into play because it's usually the high-level characters that have these 100+ charges of magic item/high magic defenses. You also don't always need to scale for the high level player. You are high level, you going to be stronger then some things attacking the town expect to be bored sometimes.
 
Can we stop with PvE and PvP ...this isn't WOW its a LARP, if my character wants to attack your character its done on IG actions based on what transpired between them. Also, high level characters don't ruin the game for low level players and I am tired of seeing post about it, opinions are fine but don't make seem like its fact because it isn't, its the person playing said character NOT their level. If you want to discuss about what's wrong with the game then talk about how broken High Magic is.....now back to the same handful of people who have the same discussions on these boards all day.

Hi Octaine, I'm glad to have you join in the conversation. The more people who talk about this civilly the more perspectives we will have. I don't think anyone here is being accusatory against high level players. I know I'm not. I'm speaking from a position of having to craft interesting and challenging encounters for an entire field of combatants from level 1 to over level 40, and their accumulated power disparity. I use PvP and PvE as terms that a large percentage of the people here can use to understand the mechanical underpinnings of our LARP system that can make that very difficult. That's all they are, shorthand. I in no way want to turn this game into Alliance of Warcraft, and I'm pretty confident the rest of the people in this thread don't either.

Secondly, while I may be critical of some of the systems in place, I am generally not critical of the players. I've met exactly one player in my three years of playing Alliance who on a player level exacerbated scaling issues. Even that person wasn't really doing it maliciously, but rather seemed to come from a place where winning/loot was what mattered, and so mulched the monsters sent out to entertain the lower level players. That is an amazing awesome to not-awesome ratio. Thus when I at least am talking about the power disparity of high levels vs low levels, I'm talking about the power disparity of the characters, and not the players. That power disparity would still exist if the two players swapped characters.

Third, I don't think high level characters ruin the game for low level characters. Having the two intermingled in the same combat scene is what makes it difficult mechanically to to use combat as a part of the narrative. If I'm aiming for a scene where the players are pushed to their limit, a card that can do so for the 40th level character will murder a 1st level. Swapped, the 40th level character can swat it in one shot. Because we're a game with an ever increasing power system, that's always going to be an issue to one degree or another. One way of handling that is to change it via a level cap. It's attractive because it's simple. It is a lot simpler than trying to rework an integrated part of our community or ruleset like Ritual Magic or High Magic. (Which seriously, I'd love to hear what you think on it on another topic)

Fourth, I always try to keep in mind that we rules gnomes make up a small percentage of the Alliance population. From what I can tell we do it because it fits our personalities, and love the game we play. I'm generalizing here, but we want the game to be the best it possibly can be for all players, from the old guard to the lady who heard about it from a friend and is showing up at level 1 in a homemade tabard and duct tape boffer. We are vocal, yes, and we do chew on things pretty thoroughly. We have strong opinions sometimes, but all are working to help make the game as good as possible. Which is why we want folks who care, like you, to voice your opinion as well.
 
You are high level, you going to be stronger then some things attacking the town expect to be bored sometimes.
The issue there is that if it's a thing that is worth fighting, you instead end up with high-level characters being the go-to answer for solving it, which distinctly lessens the challenge for the low-level characters. They might be bored because it was easy, but they're not likely bored because they just didn't do anything.

Take the 20+ swinging fighter - if it's affected by her weapon, the whole game becomes "throw her at it". Not-throwing her at it is poor application. Her refusing to do it is cowardice and/or dereliction of duty. How do you tell your noble liege that you sat out the big battle because you wanted the younglings "to have fun"?
 
How do you tell your noble liege that you sat out the big battle because you wanted the younglings "to have fun"?

"I sat in reserve, preparing to take the fiend down with my own power, but I took advantage of a perceived opportunity to provide the less capable members with invaluable experience in tactics, my liege. While there was a risk, it was my belief that the potential gains for future battles against evil was worth the chance."

Alternatively: Obliterate your liege and amnesia every witness.
 
Removing all the defences I listed requires the 20+ swinging fighter to rely on others to support him. It brings back that group mentality that is required.
"Hey two webs and I'm done here, if these low level people don't have my back we are all in trouble"
 
Removing all the defences I listed requires the 20+ swinging fighter to rely on others to support him. It brings back that group mentality that is required.
"Hey two webs and I'm done here, if these low level people don't have my back we are all in trouble"

Agree with this.

Until Magic Items are dealt with, no amount of capping, rules changes that nerf persistent damage, or HP reductions will solve this disparity issue.
 
Agree with this.

Until Magic Items are dealt with, no amount of capping, rules changes that nerf persistent damage, or HP reductions will solve this disparity issue.

DELETE ALL MAGIC ITEMS EVVERRRRRR
 
:p Fixing magic items doesn't require a ritualectomy, but it is complex.
 
I'm down for it. :)

Although my knees would hate me even more if I had to go back to hauling around legitimate armor. :)

Mine too, though I don't feel that AA really adds a significant amount to the power disparity.
 
I've long held that I want to replace AA with an 'Improve Armor' spell that has to be cast on an armor rep (even if it is a 0 armor rep) and increases its value.
 
Just as a sidebar here: I feel there is functionally no difference between a ritual that makes my tabard (0 points of armor) a 30 point suit or a ritual that makes my spirit a 30 point suit.

Except, obviously, I'm encouraged to wear clothes.
 
That's pretty much the point of it, actually, Tieran. Encouraging people to wear nice reps. :D
 
Right, but it wouldn't, is the point I'm making.
 
Agree with this.

Until Magic Items are dealt with, no amount of capping, rules changes that nerf persistent damage, or HP reductions will solve this disparity issue.
And high magic.....u mised that one.
High magic is just rituals that are given to you for the build your already spent for something else...
 
And high magic.....u mised that one.
High magic is just rituals that are given to you for the build your already spent for something else...

High magic is the system providing us with an incentive for spending significant amounts of build into a roleplayed mechanic for making toys for people.
 
To recap (to make sure I understand the points of this thread):
  • Some people think level disparity divides the player-base because the high level characters have more defenses and abilities, thereby any challenge to a low level character is easy for a high level character, and a challenge for a high level character will likely end in the death of the low level character
    • Is that bad? That sounds like "situation normal" to me.
  • This level disparity makes town battles challenging to both scale and provide adequate challenge to all involved
    • That seems like more of a problem trying to make a battle one-size-fits-all to me
  • Arguably, some believe the level disparity is not the problem, but instead magic items that can provide near infinite defenses are the problem. Without magic items then nearly every character is a two-shot kill against the right offense (i.e. fighters are weak against spells, scholars are weak against weapons), with the exception of Dodge (damned rogues!)
    • Sounds like a good argument for a magic item cap or a ritual cap
  • Some folks believe High Magic exacerbates the magic item problem
    • Does it really? I haven't seen much discussion on this perspective.
 
Removing all the defences I listed requires the 20+ swinging fighter to rely on others to support him. It brings back that group mentality that is required.
"Hey two webs and I'm done here, if these low level people don't have my back we are all in trouble"
Sure - which relegates everyone else to a support role, rather than having a chance to be The One®.

That seems like more of a problem trying to make a battle one-size-fits-all to me
Not at all. However, it does turn every battle into having the same solution - throw the big guys at it. If you're not one of the big guys, then you're a second-class citizen; your job is to be helpful, but not be the hero.
 
Sure - which relegates everyone else to a support role, rather than having a chance to be The One®

Come on, now your gasping for anything here :).

Im sure with the time you've been playing this game there have been tons of instances you have seen where the high level character wasn't the hero.

I know I can't even count the times I've seen some lower level character be considered The One® and it made the event even all that much more special for those involved.
 
High magic is the system providing us with an incentive for spending significant amounts of build into a roleplayed mechanic for making toys for people.

I'm sorry but hm was the answer to people complaining that they spent lots of build to use it "once a year". I remember when it was 4 build each for a scholar and casting rituals was very very hard with primarys and secondarys with scroll specific sticks.
Ritual magic gives 3 benefits. I'm trying to think of another purchaseable skill that does that.
 
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