Arcane Armor Refitting

Ryan S

Newbie
Minnesota Staff
A question was posed to me this weekend, and I gave the best answer I could think of, but in hindsight I'm unsure if it was correct.

The question was, "With the new Focus rules that the game has, can I move while refitting Arcane Armor?" The Arcane Armor ritual references the Focus rules, and references Refitting, but says, "Refitting Arcane Armor does not require the blacksmith skill. To refit Arcane Armor the individual must Focus for one minute. The recipient of an Arcane Armor ritual does not need to wear a physical representation of the protection this Ritual bestows."

So then I went and checked the book, and found the Refitting section was under the Blacksmithing skill. " 'Refitting' a suit of armor takes a complete uninterrupted minute of Focus during which you can perform no Game Abilities. The player must kneel or crouch and adjust their armor to represent the act of refitting. If you are refitting someone else's armor, the target must kneel while the other character roleplays fixing the armor." [the stuff after this is about how you can RP refitting]

So in light of these two pieces, I told the player, "Looks like, yeah, as long as you aren't breaking the Focus rules, you can refit Arcane Armor and be walking." Then, on my drive home with my friend, he commented about how he was frustrated that people weren't kneeling when refitting. He said that even Arcane Armor required you to kneel when refitting, and was fairly certain it was on the ritual scroll. I protested that it wasn't, but then when I get home, I found this from the old Arcane Armor ritual scroll: "Refitting Arcane Armor DOES NOT require the blacksmith skill. To refit Arcane Armor, the individual must kneel for one minute and concentrate. They may not utilize game skills while refitting and if interrupted must restart their minute of concentration."

So I'm here to ask, was the kneeling requirement for Arcane Armor purposefully omitted in favor of the new Focus rules, is this just a confusion between the scroll and the refitting rules, or is there something else I'm not seeing?

(Also, I did attempt to search for this question already being answered, but couldn't find anything. If this already came up, please just link me to the answer.)

Thanks!
 
The 2.0 Ritual text only says you have to Focus to refit Arcane Armor, but Focus on its own only requires that you not use other Game Abilities or move faster than a walking pace (unless the effect you're focusing on says otherwise, like being able to touchcast on yourself while Focusing on a Sanctuary); Arcane Armor does not specify that it must be Refit per the roleplay requirements of Blacksmithing, either, only that you don't need Blacksmith ranks to Refit it.

In light of this, I would say that you can walk while refitting Arcane Armor without issue, so long as you otherwise roleplay concentrating on Refitting it. What that means is going to be a bit different for everyone, but overall I'd suggest as quietly as possible and holding the source of the Arcane Armor in their hand if possible. Maybe think up some kind of poem or chant that they can recite for a minute if you want to? Check with some Marshals to find out how far away from this they're willing to let people stray, but otherwise I think you made the right call.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Oh wow.

If this is true, then AA finally scored a needed advantage. Especially as “caster armor,” for that matter, the ability to move while refitting is awesome.
 

jwconvery

Spellsword
Good catch, I am also curious on the ruling.

I could see refitting AA having an RP requirement of kneeling, which would be consistent in the overall scheme. Would be nice to have it explicit someplace, as the question came up in 1.3 a bunch even with it written on the scroll.

The scroll says that is doesn't require the Blacksmith skill, which makes me think the rest of "Refitting" rules applies, since it's a suit of armor. Which would mean kneeling is required.
 
Last edited:

jdackow

Scholar
I agree with jwconvery in the the intent is the you still need to follow the rule for refitting but do not use the Blacksmith skill. which tha should meat the person need to kneel and show actions to reapply the AA. However if you just need to focus a person could refit there AA while laying on the ground while playing dead.
 

Feldor

Scholar
Its not clear to me the intent is that you have to be kneeling. They intentionally removed that from the Arcane Armor description and added the new text. They could have just added the new text and left the kneeling requirement.

Relevant paragraph from 1.3 description:
Arcane Armor grants Armor Points as per normal suits of armor as defined in the Alliance Rulebook. Refitting Arcane Armor DOES NOT require the blacksmith skill. To refit Arcane Armor, the individual must kneel for one minute and concentrate. They may not utilize game skills while refitting and if interrupted must restart their minute of concentration. The recipient of an Arcane Armor ritual does not need to wear a physical representation of the protection the ritual bestows. If cast upon the spirit, the ritual continues to exist on the possessor’s spirit for the duration of the ritual even after resurrection.
Relevant paragraph from 2.0 description:
Arcane Armor will breach to zero as regular armor but will always regain its maximum value when refit. Refitting Arcane Armor does not require the blacksmith skill. To refit Arcane Armor the individual must Focus for one minute. The recipient of an Arcane Armor Ritual does not need to wear a physical representation of the protection this Ritual bestows. The level of armor protection desired by the Caster determines the difficulty rating of the Arcane Armor Ritual. At the time of casting the Ritual Caster may choose to create the Ritual of a lower value than the maximum for that difficulty level. For example the Ritual Caster may cast the Ritual at Ritual Level Four and create an 18 point Arcane Armor. Arcane Armor cannot be combined with any other source of armor such as Natural Armor or a suit of physical armor. The recipient of an Arcane Armor Ritual may choose to wear armor for decorative purposes but they get no protection or armor points for it even if the armor worn is greater then the protection the arcane armor provides. Multiple Arcane Armor Rituals may never be combined. Only one Arcane Armor Ritual may be active upon a possessor at one time. Arcane Armor must always be refit before its Armor Points may be used for example if the character picks up an Item with Arcane Armor on it or if they were previously using a suit of physical Armor instead of an Arcane Armor ritual.
It would have been easier to change "the individual must kneel for one minute and concentrate." to "the individual must kneel for one minute and Focus." But instead the entire sentence was changed to only specify Focus, so I think the removal of kneeling as a requirement was intentional.
 
If the intent is that you still need to take a knee, then they should have left that wording on the scroll; the fact that it was actively removed and replaced by only a Focus requirement means either a) they forgot that Focus doesn't require kneeling, or b) they intend you to be able to walk while you refit it.

I would prefer to think that walking was intended than that they forgot their own rules. :/
 

jwconvery

Spellsword
I would prefer to think that walking was intended than that they forgot their own rules
I could see it either way. A missed ramification of a wording change or a defined choice. Lot's of moving parts getting ready for 2.0.
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
If the intent is that you still need to take a knee, then they should have left that wording on the scroll; the fact that it was actively removed and replaced by only a Focus requirement means either a) they forgot that Focus doesn't require kneeling, or b) they intend you to be able to walk while you refit it.

I would prefer to think that walking was intended than that they forgot their own rules. :/
I would have thought A. I doubt it was an intention to allow people to walk around while refiting. Seems to go against what we do. It also makes sense that we can't refit armor while walking.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Sounds like an ARC question.

As a Marshal, I would enforce that the intention is to use the Focus mechanic, which has been pretty clearly defined during the course of 2.0 design.

I would be really, really surprised if they put in the Focus mechanic and absolutely forgot what that means. Miswording is one thing, mis-mechanicing would be extremely strange.
 

Ragnarok

Scout
Marshal
It is my opinion that this is just a strange case of terminology conversiomix-up in the rules conversion. It is my belief that even if the RAW does not wholly support it, the Rule as Intended is for you to take a knee and refit without walking around. Cause that would be nuts.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
It is my opinion that this is just a strange case of terminology conversiomix-up in the rules conversion. It is my belief that even if the RAW does not wholly support it, the Rule as Intended is for you to take a knee and refit without walking around. Cause that would be nuts.
Can you advise on where the RAI is implied to be different than the RAW? Because while this would certainly be a change for AA, I’m not sure that it’s as crazy as you think.

Consider that AA provides a ritual that cannot be enhanced by armor rituals, cannot go above 30 (technically Celestial Armor can bring it to 40, but that can be applied to any armor). It’s maximum capacity is less than 50% of the maximum capacity allowed by regular armor, without the benefit of further enhancement, and requiring a significant IG expense in terms of components.

While the ability to move at a walk for a minute of Focus is better than having to kneel, that advantage is still fairly minimal. If you’re trying to walk from an enemy who just massacred your Armor in the first place, you’re probably not going to make it.

If you manage to get to a place where you can safely refit, the fact you can walk is probably minor.

Personally, I like it mostly so I can avoid someone falling on me while I’m fixing my armor, because the fight moved so much.
 

jwconvery

Spellsword
Not a marshall, but I look at it this way.

Refitting and Focus are two different things. One simply requires the other.

Arcane Armor is armor, and can be refit.

Refitting requires ranks in Blacksmithing, kneeling and Focus.
The AA scroll calls out that refitting AA doesn't not require Ranks in blacksmithing. IMO Everything else should apply.

I understand the counter-point that the previous scroll specifically called out you have to kneel. However, I think it's best to read the rules as they are without having to compare them back to previous iterations. RAW, and read by me, would mean refitting AA requires kneeling.

Clearly there is some room to interpret things differently, and further clarification would be helpful.

On a pure balance perspective, which is a different discussion, I think not having to kneel, and being able to walk when refitting AA would be bonkers broken. Obviously YMMV by chapter.
 

Ragnarok

Scout
Marshal
Can you advise on where the RAI is implied to be different than the RAW? Because while this would certainly be a change for AA, I’m not sure that it’s as crazy as you think.

Consider that AA provides a ritual that cannot be enhanced by armor rituals, cannot go above 30 (technically Celestial Armor can bring it to 40, but that can be applied to any armor). It’s maximum capacity is less than 50% of the maximum capacity allowed by regular armor, without the benefit of further enhancement, and requiring a significant IG expense in terms of components.

While the ability to move at a walk for a minute of Focus is better than having to kneel, that advantage is still fairly minimal. If you’re trying to walk from an enemy who just massacred your Armor in the first place, you’re probably not going to make it.

If you manage to get to a place where you can safely refit, the fact you can walk is probably minor.

Personally, I like it mostly so I can avoid someone falling on me while I’m fixing my armor, because the fight moved so much.

I think I could have been clearer in my statement that my interpretation of the RAI is speculative and mostly opinion. After years of 1.3 in which you could not refit AA while walking around, for such a change to be introduced by so subtle a language change that it is only found a few days before the official Go Live strikes me as an unintentional error. I believe that it was the intent to have AA work identically to refitting physical armor, save the lack of phys rep and blacksmith skill.

I also agree that walking and refitting armor is insane levels of broken, and for that reason as well, I believe that you should kneel to refit your AA.
 

Ruki

Artisan
Insane levels of broken? You and I have VERY different definitions of the word. Like Draven said... if you're trying to refit and walk away from an enemy, you're not going to get far. And if you are safe enough to refit, then walking would be more of a comfort or safety thing.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I am generally curious as to whether or not people who think refitting 30 pts of Armor while limited to a walk is somehow more broken than 62 pts of armor than nets you a gigantic pile of bonus Body, able to be refit in 3 seconds, and temporarily doubled in Armor amounts.

I mean, I’d definitely agree with the argument in 1.3, but I’m less inclined to agree in the 2.0 armor game.
 

MaxIrons

Squire
Oregon Staff
Marshal
I'd just like us to calm down, understand that there may be a difference of opinion between marshals, and let ARC have some time to come up with a response.

This thread isn't even 24 hours old. Make your case, then relax, trust that an answer will be forthcoming, and wait.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I don’t think anyone in this thread is particularly upset.
 
Draven just always sounds mad. :p (Joking, I promise.)

My interpretation of the Ritual text, that you can walk while concentrating on the refit, comes partly from the change in wording, but also from how well spelled-out the rest of the Focus roleplay requirements are. Blacksmithing says you have to kneel and act out the refit; Sanctuary says you have to have your arms in position; Storm spells state you can't move your feet. In light of this, I would expect that if kneeling was a requirement for Arcane Armor, I would expect it to be on the scroll, but it's not; they specifically removed it, when they could have just left it on there as it was.
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
Draven just always sounds mad. :p (Joking, I promise.)

My interpretation of the Ritual text, that you can walk while concentrating on the refit, comes partly from the change in wording, but also from how well spelled-out the rest of the Focus roleplay requirements are. Blacksmithing says you have to kneel and act out the refit; Sanctuary says you have to have your arms in position; Storm spells state you can't move your feet. In light of this, I would expect that if kneeling was a requirement for Arcane Armor, I would expect it to be on the scroll, but it's not; they specifically removed it, when they could have just left it on there as it was.
Seems like all the things that require Focus also require an action (like you listed) except for AA?
That's what doesn't seem right to me.
 
Top